Tackled the 850 non-turbo PCV - all clear- still pressure

So, after the EGR cleaning (PITA) a few weeks ago, I still had an incredible amount of smoke from my dip stick tube (AKA positive crankcase pressure) so I decided to tackle the PCV today on the 850. What can I say, the S70 I did a few years ago went much smoother. First of all, every bolt, every screw and every connector gave me fits. The lower intake manifold screws were tightened down so hard that I had no choice but to remove the fuel rail and injectors to give me more room- still, I broke 1 socket and one extension- Finally got them out and the intake lifted off after struggling with this for 5 hours. If you run into problems with this, you can preservere like I did or just button it back up and pay someone to do it. I think today, I would have gladly paid an indy for his time. Long story short, when I finally got the oil separator out from under there, it was bone dry- nothing. No oil in the tubes from it attached to the side of the block and nothing in it at all... So, I'm puzzled and thought, well, just maybe the vacuum tree is stopped up...no, it is fine. So, I'm thinking that I'm going to put everything back together and still have positive pressure.

Question to Lee and others- where else can the positive pressure be coming from? I'm starting to get an oil leak, possibly from the rear main seal and I really want to solve this thing. I cleaned the EGR a couple of weeks ago but not really the copper tube leading to the exhaust side. Could that do it? How would you clean it? I hope I've covered all of the bases.

MIJ...try a rifle cleaning kit with a brass wire bristle tip. I believe they even make some that are flexible shafts. The brass bristles will knock down anything in there.

Okay, thanks- would you clean it from the exhaust side or the other side...plus this tubing is very small in diameter- wondering if the rifle kit would really work.

.22 cal is very small. Even the old straightened wire hangar might do the trick.

MIJ...I was thinking about this...my daughter used to have a pony when I had my house in the country. We used a four wire electric fence. You can buy some thin gauge fence wire at Tractor Supply. It is flexible enough for handling that tubing if it has any bends, but stiff enough that it will work and knock down any plug or debris in there. You could probably get them to give you a foot of two, but a small roll is only about 3 bucks.

Thanks...need to get the manifold back on and everything buttoned down before noon today- my son needs to drive this car after that and he certainly isn't driving the S70.

MadeInJapan wrote:Question to Lee and others- where else can the positive pressure be coming from?

Do you have any oil consumption?If you do...how much is it for 1k miles?

Typically, excessive crankcase pressure is caused by too much blow-by past the rings and pistons. This can be due to stuck rings, worn rings, or worn out cylinders. How many miles are on the car?

Try taking apart J,K,L,M,N in this phot to assure good flow.

http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-850/Engine/ ... -849-3937/

also check where the oil re enters the motor - it sometimes clogs

If it is flowing well then procede to a leakdown test for blowby.
Try a seafoam treatment after to assure free ring movement.

I beleive there was mention of a valve on the intake pipe that would casue pressure issues . I can't remember the name at the moment . You may want to check that as well.

Good Luck,
John

Thanks John...actually, all is clear with J,K,L,M and N. I even replace the section between F and H with a silicone line and ran it under the injectors. The way it was before (hard plastic), it got in my way every time I tried to take out those damn manifold screws so I ended up just screaming at it once and tore the whole piece out of the car and flung it as far as I could throw it across the yard. The Volvo Flame Trap and related parts (albeit, with some MIJ modifications) is completely clear of any clogging and breathes probably better than the day it was new.

On a related note, I did take out the flame trap as it was clogged several month ago but after the PCV "quasi-overhaul" yesterday and today, I cleaned it and put it back in... Why? Because even after 15 minutes of idling that area of the flame trap housing is full of oil- of course there is nothing in the oil trap- so everything is being diverted (I assume because of the positive pressure in the engine) to the flame trap and even with good clamps, on the intake hoses, it's leaking past them and spilling down onto the transmission area...making it look like I have a rear main seal leak (which I don't- from today's cleaning and inspection)...so what gives? The oil trap under the intake manifold is working properly...just that instead of diverting the blow-by to the engine itself, most is going to the flame trap and back into the intake (by way of the throttle body) and/or leaking down at the curve of the intake hose to the throttle body to the underside of the car. Any idea as to why this is happening? Am I over-filled on my oil in the engine? That's one thing I haven't checked but last oil change, I was meticulous as to how much oil I added.

Okay, so that's a synopsis.. The PCV overhaul which is suppose to be a 4 or 5 hour job (depending on your experience) took me all day yesterday and all day today...just finished at 7:30 PM after starting at 9 this morning- all was torn down yesterday and today I put everything back together. There were many snafus along the way...this job is the queen of all BITCHes and not something you just up and say, "I think I'll do the PCV today" unless you've done many of these and have ALL the right tools. For one, there is a hose connected to a servo vacuum device under the manifold... I really don't know what it does, but it's there...way deep next to imposible to reach once the manifold is back in (as are ALMOST ALL OTHER bits and pieces of this R&R) even if contorting and with a flexible device to hold the end of the hose to attach it to the nipple that is not visible, but only by feel and is out of reach from above or from below. When I was putting the intake manifold back in place, I noticed this and thought, gee- that would be a bad one if it slipped off. Anyway, after everything was buttoned down and I started the car, it started bucking and would not idle...so I checked things out and sure enough- the hose I was most careful with had come off. 3 hours later and after several trips to AuzoZone looking for some device to help me with this (I wasn't about to take the intake manifold off again not to mention the injectors and fuel lines), I was successful with a "pick-up tool" that grasps things you've lost in your engine bay and is flexible and 2 ft. long. So I get this connected and start the car again- same bucking and lack of idle. Next I disconnect the battery again and reset the codes- One code (A-7) I can't reset- a 2-3-1... Throttle Position Sensor- all others are fine and not giving me any trouble- so this one code (totally unrelated to the work I did) keeps coming back and also keeps me from resetting my check engine light.

Any ideas? My son says the car sounds like a go-cart. It has plenty of umph... and now idles fine (after awhile).. no apparent vacuum leaks (I did replace all not-so good looking lines with silicone lines I had laying around) but I hate driving around with a check engine light...and a TPS code....apparently the computer is mad about something...really don't thing the TPS is bad, although it could be from the throttle body now being disturbed twice in a a few weeks. BTW, I sprayed liberal amounts of contact cleaner at the connection thinking I got dirty oily grime in the connector but it didn't do any good. If anyone has any ideas to share here, I'm all ears. I think for now, we'll just drive the car and see if she settles down some. Btw, the positive pressure in the crankcase has not changed a bit- still the dipstick tube blows like a chimney. I really don't know what else to do- a 190K plus miles N/A 850- I suppose the thing to do is just drive her and if she blows a seal, then so be it- I'm tired, hands are scuffed and sore as well as my back (not a good thing for an almost 50 year old guy) and feel like I WASTED a WEEKEND. (If I had known the outcome I would have just left well enough alone and not done a thing- car was running fine except the positive pressure)... and now, I'm not so sure about this car anymore, either.

You did seafoam the engine, right? Was there any improvement on the positive pressure?
If vegasjetskier said fits your case it should improve somewhat.
Sorry Dave, wish I could help.

Mij, not having any experience with a N/a engine, here is my 0.02c...any chance that you have the incorrect oil separator ,as you know they operate differently for Turbo and N/a, perrrhaps they sent you the wrong one and it is not "breathing" like it should.

Sorry for bad news MiJ!
I wish i could help with your problem.
About what you said that you might overfill your engine with oil...it's possible but in that case i think that you would getting blue smoke from the exhaust almost all the time.
Anyway...there are not so many options.
Could be "something" related with pcv that you missed or just worn engine.Maybe valve seals or piston rings.
I would do compression test,just to be sure.
Good luck!

To answer questions- not today but a couple of weeks ago I did seafoam the engine as well as clean the EGR and throttle body- no difference. I could seafoam again. In regards to the oil separator- I think it's the original...I cheaped out and was going to clean the gunk out of it- all lines to the engine were dry and clear but I still cleaned w/ carb cleaner the shafts that lead down from these openings to the oil pan with a hard bristle brush.. As I said, when I took the oil separator out, it was bone dry as were the passages to the engine block and the openings on the engine itself. The only oil I get running past this thing is into the flame trap right before the throttle body and it's dumping oil into it at such an incredible pace that it's spilling past the throttle body hose down onto the transmission below. I sure hope someone can shed some light.

I think worn engine might be the problem...I would do the compression test but really, it's a '94 850 I paid a grand for and then put in about $300 for all timing belt parts... my son's driving it. It has plenty of torque for an N/A...it's actually quite amazing the amount of power this thing has...

At this point I'm most concerned about the Throttle Position Sensor faulty or intermittent signal code and that it doesn't allow me to reset the check engine light. Any thoughts on this- what do I have to do?