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transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

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transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby carboncow » 02 Mar 2012, 13:32

We'll in the last two weeks we repaired a bad haldex on my XC70, bad exhaust flange at the turbo and new end links...I guess we were due for more catastrophe!

The wives 2001 (150K'ish miles) just tossed up the "transmission service required" on screen. Of course she forgot to tell me this happened yesterday so I didn't have time to pull codes with the Vida...so my inquiry is a bit premature but I wanted to get comments.

The transmission still drives (no hard shifts) as fine as it has for the last two years including the two following issues:

1. backup has always required quite a few RPM like there is no pressure
2. the neutral stop bump from a stop has always been there and the wife has done fine with just taking her foot of the brake before gunning the gas.

What is the common failure as I see a few guys talking about replacing something accessible from the tranny, or should I just count on rebuild or junking it at this pont!
Shawn F.
North-Central Ohio

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2014 S60 T5
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby fazool » 02 Mar 2012, 13:44

If you have the neutral stop issue, why not get the SW updated to fix that? I understand that is purely a software revision change.

I read that the TCM monitors the transmission fluid temperature and determines how many hours the fluid has been above 150 degrees (celsius I think) and then it determines that the fluid has been degraded from that information. Apparently, thats how they claim no need for a change - they monitor and tell you if the fluid is compromised.

So, I wonder if that is the message could relate to that? I've also read it could be a communication fault between various computers or an internal issue with the transmission such as a solenoid.

I'm very interested in monitoring what transpires with 2001 transmissions - please post back whatever you find.

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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby carboncow » 02 Mar 2012, 13:49

I was told by a few on this site (as well as other sites) that the software update at such high mileage is most likely a waste of money. The opinion was that the damage was done/worn into the system. Since our local dealer insisted on 2 hours to install software, it also pissed me off! The well known (and respected?) Volvo only indie shop acted stupid when I asked them about it...so that was not encouraging. So you see my reluctancy...

The fluid is less then 20K miles old, but I understand your theory, especially in light of the fact most fluid changes get half or less of the old fluid out. I'll be pulling Volvo specific codes tonight to see what they state...and I'm always interested in Jimmy's oppinion, so we'll see if he chimes in. Stay tuned and thanks for a quick suggestion!
Shawn F.
North-Central Ohio

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2014 S60 T5
1983 Tiara 3100 Convertible
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby jimmy57 » 02 Mar 2012, 14:44

There are so many things that cause that message and since you don't mention the car having noticed shifting problems that I have no idea what it is before you scan it.
Has the car had any issues with the transmission before?
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby carboncow » 02 Mar 2012, 15:08

No noticeable concerns beyond what we are used too as mentioned!

The only odd behavior that has been there for 1+ year is backing up on a hill requiring more rpm then any car i have ever owned. I would usually be pretty concerned but since it has not gotten worse and the 2001 AT are known to be a pain, I figured it was just another symptom.

I'll wait to see the code and most likely swing by the Toyota dealer tonight to grab some ATF fluid, my XC70 is due for a change too.
Shawn F.
North-Central Ohio

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2014 S60 T5
1983 Tiara 3100 Convertible
1988 Wellcraft V20 Center Console
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby jimmy57 » 02 Mar 2012, 17:19

There are two gear ratio ranges used in the 5 speeds, 55-50 do not use as low geared reverse with reverse being taller than 1st and would make engine reach higher revs closer to TC stall speed on a grade. 55-51 gearboxes have a lower geared reverse that is lower geared (higher numerical, always confusing...) and backs up with less effort than it goes forward. I suspect you have 55-50 in the XC and the reverse sensation is normal. Pressure as regards to reverse is not a grey area thing. It either has enough pressure to hold clutches engaged or not. IF not then the gearbox would destroy itself in short order as tach would not go to 1600-1700, it would jump to 2500 and when you ease off accel pedal there would be a BUMP when the clutch locked again.

Neutral control bump is the result of the pulsed solenoids getting bore wear and the pulsed signal outputted by TCM is not really getting the pressure regulation desired. There is no pressure sensor so the TCM infers pressure through its adaptive shift control, i.e., if the shift is completed within the target time with X% solenoid signal then .5X% should be the right signal to reduce clutch apply pressure to let it slip during N control and not have slam engagement when brake is released. With worn solenoid or valve body spool valve bores the pressure with that reduced signal is not what is inferred via software.

Majority of the early 5 speeds die from valve body and solenoid issues that result in wrong pressure control during changes and during initial gear engagement.

With VIDA, go to Vehicle Details and scan down and see what gearbox it lists. Your XC90 is the 55-51 and the xc70 should be the 55-50.
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby carboncow » 02 Mar 2012, 17:40

At 150K miles I'd like to think I got one of the better ones since there is no hard shifting...

What is your thought on getting or checking for the updated software for the neutral/control stop? I thinking I've bugged you about this before but don't recall what your opinion was. From a dead stop the engagement has gotten worse since we've owned the car.

If the codes don't look to concerning and I swap fluid again, I'm wondering if I should have them check for the software.

Thanks for the highly technical answers...always fun to absorb even when some of it goes over my head!

As far as the different gearing I will check that tonight to see. I believe the car doesn't hold very well on a hill while stopped with the car in D so I figured it had todo with the torque converter being a be worn.
Shawn F.
North-Central Ohio

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2014 S60 T5
1983 Tiara 3100 Convertible
1988 Wellcraft V20 Center Console
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby matthew1 » 02 Mar 2012, 18:03

You should call around to indie shops and ask if they can do the SW update. Chances are they'll be less $ than the dealer. The shop will need VIDA. My indie shop here in Denver -- Volvo Specialists -- does have VIDA (expensive at ~$8k/year, that's why some won't have it).
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby regent » 02 Mar 2012, 18:53

If I may chime in, what fazool reminds us about is the following:

If you did not reset the fluid counter after you put in fresh fluid, the "brain" does not know anything about it. Given there is no apparent reduction in performance, there is a chance that the "Trans Service Required" message may be just a 'false positive'
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby carboncow » 02 Mar 2012, 20:06

matthew1 wrote:You should call around to indie shops and ask if they can do the SW update. Chances are they'll be less $ than the dealer. The shop will need VIDA. My indie shop here in Denver -- Volvo Specialists -- does have VIDA (expensive at ~$8k/year, that's why some won't have it).


Thanks Matt. There are only a couple well known indie shops in Columbus that have Vida and one of them is huge but I didn't like the fact the service manager played dumb with me on so many well known issues. I take offense when they act like people on forums don't know what they are talking about...and he played dumb about not knowing of a SW update to remove the stop neutral programing!

At the same time I need to get it done to put my theories to rest!
Shawn F.
North-Central Ohio

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2014 S60 T5
1983 Tiara 3100 Convertible
1988 Wellcraft V20 Center Console
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby carboncow » 02 Mar 2012, 20:10

regent wrote:If I may chime in, what fazool reminds us about is the following:

If you did not reset the fluid counter after you put in fresh fluid, the "brain" does not know anything about it. Given there is no apparent reduction in performance, there is a chance that the "Trans Service Required" message may be just a 'false positive'


whoa! That's a new one for me...can you shine some light on what a "fluid counter" is and where/how to reset? I see nothing in Vida about that and I have the DiCE unit.
Shawn F.
North-Central Ohio

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2014 S60 T5
1983 Tiara 3100 Convertible
1988 Wellcraft V20 Center Console
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby jda2000 » 02 Mar 2012, 20:45

Shawn,

you have the vida/dice setup and you have not reset the fluid counter yet, you are a bad boy spank yourself :) LOL

After you refresh the fluid, go to the TCM advanced tab in vida(with dice attached). There, you reset the fluid counter, erase all the tranny adaptives(to start fresh), then put the tranny in adaptive mode and drive away making sure the tranny shihts smoothly between gears.
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby regent » 02 Mar 2012, 22:07

Instead of spanking yourself, if you do adaptions, before driving away, make sure you read/print out the adaptation procedure steps in VIDA. It is a little bit more than normal driving ;)
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Re: transmission service required, yes it's a 2001...

Postby carboncow » 02 Mar 2012, 22:58

jda2000 wrote:Shawn,

you have the vida/dice setup and you have not reset the fluid counter yet, you are a bad boy spank yourself :) LOL

After you refresh the fluid, go to the TCM advanced tab in vida(with dice attached). There, you reset the fluid counter, erase all the tranny adaptives(to start fresh), then put the tranny in adaptive mode and drive away making sure the tranny shihts smoothly between gears.


I still need a bit of help understanding this in vida...as I do not see a "TCM advanced tab" anywhere. Do you mean the SOFTWARE tab, and then selecting ADVANCED and then TCM (see screenshot for my view)...or am I in the wrong place?

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Shawn F.
North-Central Ohio

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2014 S60 T5
1983 Tiara 3100 Convertible
1988 Wellcraft V20 Center Console
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