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Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.
1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby 1997volvo850 » 05 Aug 2012, 17:37

I'm trying to decide whether to replace the fuel pump assembly or just the insert. I think I've narrowed
down the problem to the fuel pump. The car turns over but doesn't start.

I've been assuming the fuel pump turns on in key position II before the starter is engaged. I can't hear
the pump in my working 850 so maybe this information is incorrect.

I installed the fuel pump relay from my working 850 into the dead 850 and get the same behavior -
turns over but doesn't start.

When I remove the blue cap from the end of the fuel line and press the valve there is no gas at all.

This seem a good indication that my fuel pump is bad.

Questions:

How long does it normally take to perform this repair with a 1) replacement unit 2) pump insert. Is dealing
with the insert significantly more work? The Haynes manual only describes replacing the entire unit, not replacing
the insert. Estimated time of completion would be a great addition to the Hayes manual and online tutorials.

Replacement parts: At FCP Groton the replacement "unit" assembly is $389. They list several inserts: a Hella
insert marked (OEM) for $74.99, a Bosch insert for $80.99. There is also an Bosch pump for $126 with the same
picture as the insert (one must be wrong) so I'm trying to determine the difference between the $80 and $129 Bosch
parts. Finally, at Advanced Auto Parts, they have an Airtex pump insert (E8643) for $129.99 that is supposed to
be an exact fit. I suppose the local dealer is an option for the insert and pump but I'm hoping to avoid going there.

What are the potential complication to this task? Is there significant downside to attempting this repair?
Like damage to the fuel lines resulting in hundreds of dollars of addition repairs. The pressure fittings on top look
tricky to me.

Right now my vehicle is in a parking lot about five miles away. I could have it towed but I need to decide
whether to tow it home (I fix it) or somewhere else. Right now I'm thinking I should be able to perform this task
in the parking lot with either the entire unit or the insert. Since I'm taking my tools with me a list of tools and
detailed instructions might be useful. Search returns a lot of related threads on fuel pumps and fuel pump relays
but I haven't found the cook book recipe I'm looking for. If replacing the insert is complicated I could remove it
and bring it home to work on.

This is really the first time one of our 850s has died completely. Our original 850 is still running strong though
I may start to look for a spare fuel pump in the junk yard for future use. Others recommend a spare fuel relay so
I will likely pick one up.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks


OE Numbers
9480152, 69693, H75011571, 0580453420, 0580314067
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby 1997volvo850 » 06 Aug 2012, 06:28

I went to check out our car this evening. My wife managed to get it started once since
the fuel pump apparently died so she asked to try to start it (she said she might get lucky)
and It started right up.

I tried starting the car several times over two hours the day before and did not get gas at the schroeder
valve (blue cap).

Since I also have an intermittent problem with the ignition (head lights and instrument lights don't come
on unless I bring the key back a hair) I'm wondering if these problems are related.

I'm still thinking fuel pump but thought I'd mention the issue with the ignition. So far no responses to my
original post looking for advice on fuel pump assemblies versus inserts.

Thanks in Advance
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby JimBee » 06 Aug 2012, 08:59

I haven't done the insert so I don't know how tricky it is. I guess it depends on your skill level. Call sales/techs at IPDusa.com, also a trusted sponsor of this site for a better sense of what you're getting into and how to decide on the brand. They've helped me quite a bit. Then you need a way to get the toothed retention ring off the top of the pump. One poster here found that a pliers sold for changing an oil filter works on that. Otherwise, you'll need to drive it loose with a hammer and screw driver, which jars it pretty hard and is probably not a good idea.

First, though, relays are known to fail on these cars. You can remove the 103 relay and use a paper clip to jump across pins 87 and 15 — I think. Confirm that by searching on this site before you do it. It could be a failed relay. If the car starts and runs continuously with the jumper in place, it's the relay. That's a two minute repair once you get the relay.
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby rmmagow » 06 Aug 2012, 15:07

Electrical portion of the ignition switch? And the relay. If it started once after this failure, I'd be more inclined to think the ign. switch is a problem since you mentioned turning it a hair etc. The electrical part of the switch replacement is pretty straight forward I think.
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby erikv11 » 06 Aug 2012, 16:06

Because the first post said you swapped in a working pump and it still wouldn't start (did I read that right?), I would say a bad relay is more likely than bad fuel pump. There is a fuel system relay and there is a fuel injection relay. The former fails more often.

The car definitely has a faulty electrical portion of the ignition switch. I'd fix that right away and first, no matter what. It is very uncomfortable to be driving down a dark stretch of highway and have all headlights and dash lights go out. As it gets worse, the car will start doing other weird things. Very unsafe IMHO and in my experience. And maybe replacing it will fix the fuel problem!
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby 1997volvo850 » 08 Aug 2012, 13:33

I installed the fuel pump relay from my working 850 into the dead 850 and there was no change
in behavior. This leads me to suspect the fuel pump (or possibly ignition switch).

Given the need to sometimes "wiggle" the key in order to get the headlights to come on I'm thinking to
replace the "electronics" portion of the ignition first. Seems the ignition switch does impact the fuel
pump activation.

I've spent quite a bit of time looking for more details. Is there is nice diagram of the ignition available?
Does anyone know the part number for the electronic portion of the ignition switch?

Another thread mentions a few hours to replace the tumbler and yet another only 15 minutes to replace
the electronics portion of the ignition.

Replacing the tumbler looks like a nightmare (and expensive). Are there any write ups on replacing the
electronics? I'm wondering if the tumbler is next...

Thanks in advance
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby erikv11 » 08 Aug 2012, 15:38

It's the 15 minute job, really easy once you get the plastics off.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37398

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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby ridemaine » 13 Aug 2012, 02:38

1997Volvo850 - Have you had any luck solving your problem. My 1996 850 died today in town and reluctently restarted a few times but died right out. I have nearly no flow at the shradder valve but what makes me wonder is your talk about the ignition switch. Mine has doen just what you talk about with turning back the key to get lights, speedo, and blickers for the 2.5 years and 30k I've owned it. Yesturday on a small road trip the speedo totally stopped work at one point so know this fuel issue is making me wonder. Any information on your findings and results would be greatly appreaciated. Love the car but cash is short right now with the college bill waiting to be paid.
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby c_leforce » 13 Aug 2012, 18:18

I have a 97 850 glt with what i think is a lot of the same issues, The fuel pump is good and the relay is new. But my car will still not start sometimes and worse die while I'm driving it. The only way i can get it started is by doing a hard reset by disconnecting the battery, then it will start right up. I don't seem to have the issue with playing with the key to get things working but i do think it might be a failing ecu.... any ideas with how mine is acting compared to others symptoms?
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby cn90 » 13 Aug 2012, 18:57

c_leforce wrote:I have a 97 850 glt with what i think is a lot of the same issues, The fuel pump is good and the relay is new. But my car will still not start sometimes and worse die while I'm driving it. The only way i can get it started is by doing a hard reset by disconnecting the battery, then it will start right up. I don't seem to have the issue with playing with the key to get things working but i do think it might be a failing ecu.... any ideas with how mine is acting compared to others symptoms?


Look into MAF issue.
If so, use only Bosch or Volvo brands.
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby c_leforce » 13 Aug 2012, 19:15

I had someone else tell me that, not ruling it out but one of the times that it died i unplugged the MAF and it still wouldn't start. I then did another hard reset and then it fired right up, does this rule the MAF out or not make any difference?
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby ridemaine » 14 Aug 2012, 03:05

With mine that having fuel the pump is good we discovered through a couple things after sitting all night it had pressure as well as using the power probe on the outlet of the relay to the pump we were able to keep it going when it started to die tonight by sending power there. Does anyone know of a way to test the relays or to check for correct voltage going in and out? I think I am going to put a relay in and see what it does but what else could cause the drop in fuel pressure in the fuel circuit? Thanks again guys!
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby JimBee » 14 Aug 2012, 03:34

The standard recommended test on this site is use a wire or paper clip and jump the relay socket across pins 87 & 15. If it starts and runs okay, then the relay is bad.
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Re: Fuel Pump / Insert Questions [1997 Volvo 850 GLT]

Postby c_leforce » 14 Aug 2012, 23:43

Ok new info on mine, i may be a dummy.....actually I think I am a dummy, i replaced the relay that sits on the fan shroud and it just dawned on me about the relay in the fuse box ( hence the dummy part) Well i connected pin 15 to 87 and it fired up! Thats all fine and dandy but remember this was an intermittent issue, so i put 103 back in and it fired up again. So my new question is would a failing relay sometimes work and other times not?

Thanks again,

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