93 850 Oil pump leak... I'm out of ideas [SOLVED]

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 03 Dec 2013, 17:30

Hi all,

After replacing the oil gasket and the crank seal, I reassembled the timing and started.
It ran ! Hurray !
Then at higher revolution it started to leak.
First I thought : not tightened enough, as I couldn't find torque specs for it.
Then I was tightening and a bolt broke. Found new bolts. Tightened them.
Reassembled the timing. Started... all was fine... until at higher revolution it started to leak.

I removed everything again. Replaced the crank seal - again.
Reassembled everything... again ....
Started .... all was well, until at higher revolutions the leak is still there !

The leak starts as a drip but has in some cases developed into a little stream. It's hard to see where it's coming from. The center ? maybe as there is oil there, but it's also around the edges of the pump.
Should I tighten it more ?

OMG ! I am so frustrated !

And I am out of ideas. I just don't know what to even do next to fix this.
Please ... someone ... Give me a great idea so I can get this over with once and for all.

difflock54 · Post by **difflock54** » 03 Dec 2013, 18:15

Is the new gasket exactly the same thickness, shape / size as the old one?
Could you perhaps try fitting it with the addition of some gasket cement like in the old days.
May be enough to stop the problem?

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 03 Dec 2013, 18:25

I have some kind of gasket maker that I used on the water pump gasket.
At this point I would guess it's drenched in oil though so it's hard to say how well it's functioning. The old gasket was brittle and crispy. It broke upon even the lightest touch, so I would expect the new one to be an improvement.

It's worth considering.

Anyone else have feedback on gasket cement ?

Post by **cn90** » 03 Dec 2013, 18:59

With engine running, lift the dipstick about 1 inch (don't remove it, just lift it up), does the oil leak stop?

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 03 Dec 2013, 19:01

going to check now ... hang on ...

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 03 Dec 2013, 19:13

Doesn't seem like it. Although I did notice the smoking dipstick. I already figured the PCV needed work, as nothing was done to this car basically. I have the parts for that already.

If anything it seems to get worse the longer it runs. It starts as a drip, then comes down like a sort of squirt, then starts to stream. I can't figure out for sure where the leak is. It seems to be all around the edge of the pump, but there also appears to be a stream coming from the center. I don't understand how though. I replaced the crank seal twice now. The gasket is perfectly placed. The bolts are tight. I believe the pump is as far back as it goes. (placed it with the bolts as guides, then hammered the pump back with help of an extension) (the second crank seal I installed after placing the pump. I also replaced the big O ring on the outside of the pump, but only after the 2nd failed attempt. No difference either way.

Could it be that perhaps I didn't tighten the allen bolts on the back of the oil pump enough ?
I'm just reaching and second guessing everything now.

Post by **cn90** » 03 Dec 2013, 19:53

You are probably familiar with this setup:
http://www.volvohowto.com/how-to-oil-pu ... 70-or-c70/

Questions:
1. Did you nick the mating surfaces (engine side or crank side) during seal removal?

2. What brand of seal, is it Volvo OEM or aftermarket?

3. Was the seal installed correctly, i.e., during insertion of oil pump, the seal needs to be lubricated with oil and gently slid in without messing up the seal?

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 03 Dec 2013, 20:18

I am very familiar with this DYI, as it was this one that made me prepare to do the oil pump gasket as well. And good thing I did (besides the leak) as the gasket was as brittle as kale chips. Just like in that DIY.

1) I did not nick anything. I was very careful not to damage anything as I knew oil would be running all over it.
2) Originally I had an OEM Volvo Crank seal on it. I replaced it today (as I was worried it might be the crank seal) with an aftermarket that a local Bap Geon had in stock. Part# 052-4000 which I think is Beck Arnley.
3) The first time I had it installed along with the oil pump (ergo: the seal was inserted into the pump and I positioned the pump with the seal in place). The second time : same thing, but I was more aware of how the seal would fold around the shaft. The third time around I didn't remove the pump. I changed out the crank seal with the pump in place.

Post by **cn90** » 03 Dec 2013, 20:22

A leak in the crank area can only come from 2 places:

1. Crank Seal (which is installed in the oil pump itself)...or

2. The Black O-ring.

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 03 Dec 2013, 20:28

It leaked before replacing the O ring. i'm wondering if there's a conglomeration of issues. The first time the bolts may not have been tight / the pump may not have been all the way back / the crank seal may have not been placed right.

However following that one time, I was very careful to triple check everything.
I didn't originally replace the Oring, but did the last time around. The old one actually broke off, as I was checking it. Dried up and brittle. So I popped the new one on.

The crank seal should be fine this time, but who knows. It was hard to pop it around the shaft without the lip flipping forward or the spring popping out of the seal. 88 in/lb is the way to go for this, correct ? or should I try to tighten ? Could this be caused by the alan bolts not being tight enough on the back of the pump ?

I'm sorry to be so needy. I try really hard to do the best I can, but these curve-balls just baffle me.