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2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
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lous_97_850
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lous_97_850

2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by lous_97_850 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:18 pm

I recently bought a 2000 V70 XC AWD SE with 170,000 miles. It runs great and used all the great info on this site to repair the ABS module and broken rear ABS sensor wire. No more ABS lights Wahoo!. I also freed up the brakes as the car had not been used for awhile.

After driving the car for a few hundred miles not the car was a little loose and that the rear tires where wearing on the inside tread and that the top of the rear tires where leaning inward. Steering wheel is a little off center, but the car runs straight down the road with no pulling to either side. Talked to the good folks at FCP Euro and replaced the front struts/mounts and rear Nivomat shocks. After the replacement ride is much stiffer but camber on rear wheels is still an issue and wearing tires. There rear tires are out of plumb at least a half inch from the top to the bottom.

I checked this against my 2001 V70 T5 and the rear tires on it are close to being plumb. I also checked the height of the wheel wells on both vehicles. On the 2001 V70 Front wheel well to ground is 27 inches and rear 28 inches. On the 2000 V70 AWD the wheel well height measurements are 27 inches on the front and 26 on the rear.

I am going to have the car aligned, and am aware that the rear toe-in can be adjusted which may help with the tire wear issue, but I think most of the wear is due to the excessive camber on the rear wheels. Please assist, I need to get new tires and send my son off to school with the car, but I want to get the camber issued fixed before ruining a new set of tires in a few thousand miles.

Can the camber on the rear wheels be adjusted during an alignment on the 2000 V70 XC AWD SE?

Could the rear coils springs be worn out causing the rear end to lower and change the geometry of the control arm thus changing the rear wheel camber?

Thanks,

Lou

96 960
97 850 NA
2000 V70 XC AWD SE
2001 V70 T5

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Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by scot850 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:12 pm

Welcome Lou to MVS. So you decided to take on the most challenging of the P80 models (the AWD).

The only 'adjustment' as such on the rear suspension is on the cross stays that run behind the rear axles. These only really adjust the toe in/out on the rear.

There are a bunch of bushes back there and 2 controls arms. The first bushes to check are the side stays that run to just in font of the rear jacking points. The front ones can pull through when worn. To access these you need to drop the rear jacking point and the 3 bolts that hold the front side stay bush mount. The bushes are still available but are hard to get, but the cheapest option is to buy the whole mount and bush. When I bought these from Tasca last year it was $25 for the bush and $30 for the mount and bush!

There are then 2 clamp shaped bushes at the rear of the side stays, one in-front and one behind the lower control arm. These are also available for a 240 front suspension as a poly bush.

The control arm has 2 bushes that are the same, an inner and outer. These took 5 months when I ordered from Volvo, had to come from Sweden and were on back order. They are hard to fit and can crack the sub-frame if not careful. In fairness the inner one typically doesn't wear and the outer may also be ok.

There is an outer mount bush for the upper control arm. This bush is no longer available the last I checked. This can tear and may cause your camber issue.

The upper control arm has 2 bushes, but again these typically don't seem to wear as badly as the rest.

There are also 2 bushes either end of the cross stay. Normally not an issue, but although the outer was available last year the inner took 5 months to get.

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

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Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by Ozark Lee » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:05 am

My first XC had the same issue but the PO had replaced the rear shocks with non Nivomat shocks and he didn't change the springs. I picked up a pair of Nivomats at a Pic-N-Pull and after I replaced the shocks the camber issue corrected itself.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

lous_97_850
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lous_97_850

Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by lous_97_850 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:12 am

With the measurement of the car being lower in the back be indicative of worn coil springs?

Lou

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Ozark Lee

Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by Ozark Lee » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:30 am

lous_97_850 wrote:With the measurement of the car being lower in the back be indicative of worn coil springs?

Lou
Usually yes but it could also mean bad rear shocks. The XC rear springs are fairly soft and the Nivomat self leveling shocks make up for it. New Nivomats are real expensive so many people try to replace them with a standard shock and the original springs are way too soft to make that work combination properly. The Nivomats can fail but there are usually telltale signs of oil leaking from the piston seal under the dust boot.

The rear shocks and springs are a system and if the shocks are changed to a different type then the springs need to be changed to a stiffer or softer spring as well. Unless the springs have actually broken they are usually pretty close to the factory spec even after 200k+ miles.

IPD is pretty much my go to source for proper combinations of springs and shocks. While they thrive on packages to lower the car and/or improve the handling they can most certainly set you up with a package that is fairly stock.

If you do have leaky Nivomats then a Pick-N-Pull can also be a great source. The Nivomats are engineered to last the life of the car and they don't wear out like a normal shock. They do fail altogether though. A used set that aren't leaking can usually be scored at a Pick-N-Pull for under $25.00 for the pair which is much less painful than $350.00 / shock for new Nivomats.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

lous_97_850
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lous_97_850

Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by lous_97_850 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:32 pm

Lee,

I just replaced the Nivomats along with the from struts/mounts and still have the camber issue. Car sits lower in the back. That's why I question the springs being bad. When I was under the car I did not notice any worn out bushings and suspension seems tight. I will crawl under it again after work to take another look. It seems odd that it is about the same on either side. Car is clean, no evidence of any accidents. I wonder if PO hauled a lot of weight in it.

Any other suggestions? Should I replace the springs to see if it helps?

Thanks,

Lou

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Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by Ozark Lee » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:56 pm

That is a call I can't really make without crawling under the car and looking at it. I hate to tell you to go and buy somethings when all I am doing is guessing based on your description.

Is it both wheels or just one?

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

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Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by JDS60R » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:05 pm

Rear wheel negative camber(in at top) and toe in (in at front) is caused by lack of spring height ( lowering or wear) .

You can use inserts below and above the spring (most made by SPC) http://www.spcalignment.com/.

As you return height to the spring the toe and camber will adjust into spec ( unless something is bent - rare when both tires doing same thing)

Most alignment shops will not do this. I know - I do it all the time.

The toe is the worse of the two as 0.25 degrees too much toe in is enough to burn up the tire and cause a nasty pattern.

There is usually a toe adjustment on the back but I am not in front of my machine to double check for you .

Either way - get your spring height back and you'll be fine.

If you can get toe in spec and camber to 1.5 degrees or less you will be fine .

Your alignment tech can show you the changes while its on the rack by jacking up the car (by jacking the body) near the tire.
Masterworks Complete Auto Services
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lous_97_850
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lous_97_850

Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by lous_97_850 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:14 pm

Thanks for the advice. I will call SPC tech line tomorrow for their advice.

Do you believe it Is ibetter to use inserts of get new springs? And would you replace the spring seat also?

I don't know if the following is useful in troubleshooting but....

This evening I jacked up the car to take a look under for any worn bushings. Did not see any. Lowered the car and both wheels where sitting plumb with no negative camber. Wheel well to ground was about 27 inches. Took the car for a ride and rear wheels were back at negative camber and the wheel well to ground measurement is now 26 inches.

Thanks again, I appreciate the advice that is given on this forum, it has helped me with many repairs. I called a couple of the local Volvo dealerships and other repair shops that work on Volvo's and their only advice was to get an alignment.

Lou

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Re: 2000 V70 XC AWD SE Rear Wheel Camber Issues, excessive tire inner tread wear

Post by JDS60R » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:59 pm

That's normal - they all settle in. We jounce them ( bounce them softly up and down without causing wheel hop) to settle them but a ten to 30 min drive is much better.

In the rears I plan on shocks and seats first. Then measure the spring while its out. Have your parts vendor share the height of theirs with you before this. Then you will know if you need new springs or not.

I think the nivomat conversion to stock requires new springs.

good shocks will get you back 1/2 in max . worn seats get you about 1/4 to 3/8 for both.

I always jack it up while on the aligner and if I need an inch of height I would have new springs and spacers on hand.

PS - IPD and other companies sell spacers you can twist in between the spring coils I'n not a huge fan but they do work in some situations.

Remember toe is the goal (get it in the center of spec).
1.5 degrees of camber either way is something you can easily live with. Any more and its ride height time.
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100 Park Circle
Old Hickory, TN 37138

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