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Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice Topic is solved

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
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1997 - 2000 V70-XC
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jvl
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Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by jvl » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:28 am

Hey all,

It's been a while since I last posted; unfortunately have not been problem free since.
Seems like my Bevel gear is up for repair, but I'm curious for your opinions. Tried to sum up relevant information here:

'99 V70XC (MY 2000)
282.000 KM (= roughly 176000 miles)
3rd owner

My current sorrows are the following:
Brought the car in to my Indy this morning to install new PCV system as i kept losing oil and suspected that to be the culprit. Also wanted them to help me check the car out in general since I kept coming across problems. The car has been making a noise coming from the front left since ~400 km.
They diagnosed the noise was coming from the transfer case (=angle gear / bevel gear) by listening around using a stethoscope. We've been around and under the car for 45 minutes for a general inspection at my request and they say it's - apart from the transfer case - a good and solid car.
I'm now looking for advice as on how to proceed. Since the car is costing me a lot of €€€ each month so far, I'm now at the very unfortunate point of having to decide wheher I can afford keeping it on the road.

My main question is:
- IF I were to repair my transfer case/bevel gear; how can I be certain that it being broken is NOT being caused by the viscous coupling?


What I know about my viscous coupling:
- with the car in N and all 4 wheels in the air, if I turn the rear propshaft in one direction, the rear wheels spin. In the other direction, the propshaft moves freely without the rear wheels turning.
- With the car in D, all 4 wheels in the air, all 4 wheels turn.
- If I turn one rear wheel while car is up in the air, the other rear wheel turns counter clockwise, telling me the rear diff is o.k.(?)
- I know that the AWD system is prone to problems when using different tyre sizes rear and front. I have 4 new quality tyres of equal size installed that have seen 2000KM (= roughly 1250 miles) so far. I don't know whether the previous owners have paid attention to this. The tires that were under it when I bought it were the same brand but unevenly worn.
Is there any way to further test the Viscous Coupling before I proceed and repair the transfer case??

The last thing I want is to repair the transfer case and do it all over again in 5000KM because the real problem is caused by something else... Am I just having bad luck with my transfer case or do I need to look further?

Any advice or shared thoughts highly appreciated; thanks so much in advance,

Joost
1999 V70XC. Stock, except.... I like tinkering:
electronics
2nd battery (with isolator)
2200w pure sine wave inverter
LED Work lights in tailgate
LED traffic advisor
RC parking lights

audio
stock tweeters front and back
8" underseat powered sub

camping extras
'drawer system' in trunk
solar panel on roofrack



Feel free to PM for pics

scot850
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Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by scot850 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Remove the prop-shaft from the rear of the angle gear and drive in FWD and see if the noise is still there. There is another thread in the last couple of days on the same subject.

The general issue is the 'drive' from the transmission to the angle gear for the rear wheels is via a sleeve or coupling that has an internal spline that connects to the transmission and the angle gear. This wears with age and then slips on the angle gear end and will damage the splines on the angle gear. The angle gear is a simple differential with bearings and seals and the sleeve.

So try as suggested and see what happens. This is not a 100% test for the AWD system, but more of a test for the angle gear condition. Let us know what happens.

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

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jvl
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Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by jvl » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:17 pm

Hi Neil,

thanks so much for the response.

Just to be sure I'm getting this straight, before I ask my Indy to take the propshaft of (Background info: I am 'not allowed' to do extensive work on my car in the street as I live in a 'touristic city centre' (ridiculous...) and am unfortunately living in an apartment without garage...):

Your response sort of points into the direction that the actual angle gear itself might be allright internally, and that the problem might be with the connection between driveshaft and angle gear? Am I understanding this correctly?

Thanks,

Joost
1999 V70XC. Stock, except.... I like tinkering:
electronics
2nd battery (with isolator)
2200w pure sine wave inverter
LED Work lights in tailgate
LED traffic advisor
RC parking lights

audio
stock tweeters front and back
8" underseat powered sub

camping extras
'drawer system' in trunk
solar panel on roofrack



Feel free to PM for pics

scot850
Posts: 6167
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:46 pm
Year and Model: 2000 V70 R
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 250 times
Canada
scot850

Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by scot850 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:21 pm

Not exactly as you have written.

The angle gear has a pass through for the RH front axle that goes directly into the transmission. The transmission passes power to the rear wheels through the collar or sleeve which fits around the RH shaft.

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread ... -in-Europe

This link shows the angle gear. The collar is part #19 in the layout. This has a spline on the inside that connects the transmission to the shaft in the angle gear, which in turn, turns the power through 90 degrees to get power to the prop-shaft to the rear wheels (output shaft flange is not numbered but is the flange at the bottom left f picture).

What may have happened is the splines on the inside of the sleeve (#19) may have failed or in the process of failing.

It is a hard system to diagnose, but the removal of the prop-shaft to the rear will help identify if the sleeve is failed as you will be able to turn the output flange of the angle gear while the front wheels are locked. Removing the shaft will also help isolate where the noise is coming from. Your car will still be able to run in FWD only.

While the prop-shaft is out you can easily check the condition of the front universal joint (fails due to wear and heat from the catalytic converter) and also the condition of the center bearing and bearing carrier rubber.

If the prop-shaft is out you can check the VC unit for condition (if you turn it and the rear wheel move it is probably good) and the condition of the front VC mounting and the nose bearing in the front of the VC case. No noises from there you are probably ok but not 100% able to tell.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Volvo-Tr ... B00S8S1OF6

You can see the splines on the inside of the sleeve.

Blow is a picture showing the major parts of the angle gear:

http://pawlikautomotive.com/2012/10/why ... e-concern/

The spline to the left of the picture is where the collar fits onto, which turns the shaft and the 'differential' crown wheel and turns the power 90 degrees to the out put shaft on the right of the picture.

Hope this helps.

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

ecbsykes
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ecbsykes

Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by ecbsykes » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:54 pm

Just throwing this out there... if you don't NEED the AWD, you actually can remove the angle gear completely from these cars. I've been driving mine without the angle gear AND prop shaft for about 6 years and close to 100K miles. At some point it's just not worth the cost to keep the AWD system going if multiple things are failing. Paired with careful driving and maybe better tires, this car does very well in snow and ice in FWD.

Best of luck though, I hope it works out that it's not too expensive to fix if you do need it working.
2000 V70XC - 299,000 miles
Hilton Tune, 16T Turbo, Mototec 3" downpipe, Blue injectors, IPD Short Ram Filter, Snabb Intake Piping & RIP kit, do88 Intercooler, TME Dual Exhaust, HID Projectors, R Panels, do88 Silicone Hoses

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jvl
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jvl

Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by jvl » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:29 am

Neil, thanks so much for this detailed explanation, helps me to understand what's potentally going on much better!
So, I've followed your advice and just brought my car in to my local garage to have the rear propshaft removed. I also asked them to check for play and wear in the angle gear by turning the flange that the rear propshaft normally connects to. Also asked them to check the VC once again.

Will pick the car up again on friday, will inform you on how it went.

Thanks so far,

Joost
1999 V70XC. Stock, except.... I like tinkering:
electronics
2nd battery (with isolator)
2200w pure sine wave inverter
LED Work lights in tailgate
LED traffic advisor
RC parking lights

audio
stock tweeters front and back
8" underseat powered sub

camping extras
'drawer system' in trunk
solar panel on roofrack



Feel free to PM for pics

scot850
Posts: 6167
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:46 pm
Year and Model: 2000 V70 R
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 250 times
Canada
scot850

Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by scot850 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:49 am

I'm hoping it is nothing serious. Finding good AWD parts is getting harder and many at the rear of the cars are becoming obsolete. There are sure to be good Volvo used parts places or junkyards that you can get used parts from. Just make sure you are getting parts from the right year as they changed slightly in 98,99,00 year models.

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

User avatar
jvl
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:33 am
Year and Model: 1999 V70 XC
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Netherlands
jvl

Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by jvl » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:25 pm

So, picked up the car at the garage today. They removed the propshaft, but this unfortunately has not solved my problem: sounds like a squealing bearing still, even at low speeds, starting at ~10 mph.
Now in the process of contacting the seller to see if he is willing to provide me with a known good angle gear, as they seem to be hard to find in my area. Thanks for the tip on the different models per year, will take notice.
Will keep you posted when something changes!
1999 V70XC. Stock, except.... I like tinkering:
electronics
2nd battery (with isolator)
2200w pure sine wave inverter
LED Work lights in tailgate
LED traffic advisor
RC parking lights

audio
stock tweeters front and back
8" underseat powered sub

camping extras
'drawer system' in trunk
solar panel on roofrack



Feel free to PM for pics

scot850
Posts: 6167
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:46 pm
Year and Model: 2000 V70 R
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 250 times
Canada
scot850

Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by scot850 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:36 pm

If you need to use the car, you could in the short term do what ecbsykes suggested and I know others have also done.

You may need to PM ecbsykes to find exactly what he did, but basically owners have removed the RH axle (which runs through the angle gear housing), then removed the angle gear unit then glued the sleeve back into the transmission and re-fitted the RH axle and driven it in FWD only.

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

ecbsykes
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:43 pm
Year and Model: 2000 V70XC
Location: Enid, OK
Has thanked: 29 times
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United States of America
ecbsykes

Re: Angle / Bevel gear wrecked - looking for advice

Post by ecbsykes » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:08 am

scot850 wrote:If you need to use the car, you could in the short term do what ecbsykes suggested and I know others have also done.

You may need to PM ecbsykes to find exactly what he did, but basically owners have removed the RH axle (which runs through the angle gear housing), then removed the angle gear unit then glued the sleeve back into the transmission and re-fitted the RH axle and driven it in FWD only.

Neil.
Actually, I just took two hose clamps and fitted them through each other to prevent the sleeve from moving. Looks ghetto, but works well and haven't had any real leaks, maybe just a very tiny bit of weeping. There's no real way to glue to sleeve in there as far as I know. It was designed to be held in place by the angle gear, so you really need something physical to push against its desire to move out of the axle seal.

Added benefit of doing this: makes working on the XC sooooo much easier. Reaching the turbo, air intake, and all vacuum/coolant hoses in the area is simple now.
20170121_121438.jpg
2000 V70XC - 299,000 miles
Hilton Tune, 16T Turbo, Mototec 3" downpipe, Blue injectors, IPD Short Ram Filter, Snabb Intake Piping & RIP kit, do88 Intercooler, TME Dual Exhaust, HID Projectors, R Panels, do88 Silicone Hoses

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