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Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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shiloh51933
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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by shiloh51933 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:34 pm

If it's a money pit and not worth it then get rid of it. Every used car has it's issues but if you have to pay someone else to get your R back to stage 0 or back to like new shape it's going to cost big dollars.
If U Wanna Play U Gotta Pay!!

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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by scot850 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:36 pm

I have to pay someone to do certain work because I don't have the facilities/knowledge/specialist tools to do some jobs. Most of the work I typically do myself on my own cars. If I had access to a hoist (long term plan) then less will be farmed out. Sometimes I have just not had the time to do some immediate work and again I pay to do it. We have no independent repair shops that are any good on import repairs. Most of the repair shops should not be allowed to do business, as I have spent many hours and $$$'s repairing their work. The only reason the 'R' has stayed around it A) it is rare, B) I have put so much time/money into it I can never get the money back out of it, and c) when it does run it runs great and you can forgive some issues.

Add to that the the engineer in me refuses to have a car which does not work as it should. And yes I have had new/newer vehicles and most have been no better, only the warranty has been good. Worst vehicle ever owned? A brand new 2001 Honda Oddity minivan. Piece of junk that eventually had Honda Canada president involved due to level of problems it had.

Finally, hard to justify a new(er) vehicle as I don't do a big mileage (maybe 4000 miles a year max). Depreciation would be a killer!

Lastly having been a Volvo diehard for 40+ years, it is hard to move away. Problem is no newer Volvos meet our needs currently or in the next year once the boss retires too (try getting 4 sets of golf clubs in a current Volvo with 4 adults! Even the XC90 and S/V90 can't). We will then probably downsize house/cars to one newer larger SUV and probably keep the 'R as a 'toy' for sunny days or when we need 2 cars on the odd occasion.

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by abscate » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:04 am

It will be perfect when you find that nice solution for your foursome tee time and teatime - as a fully depreciated second car.

If only you could get the nice T6 transporter over in North America. Schade!!
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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by Cosron » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:47 am

New here with a 1998 V70R that is running up a giant tab at the mechanic, a great guy who knows Volvos and is an honest man. Am getting a lot done up front with the hope that I won't have surprises hitting me all the time, but the cost is challenging my sanity. For me, the best comment I've seen on the site so far is how good it feels to see the car in the driveway and then how great to drive. That's comforting and also knowing how costly new Volvos are, and maybe not as solid.

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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by LOB » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:18 am

From a Swedish perspective I can't really understand the (US?) perception that a P80 is a unreliable and costly money pit? In Sweden Volvo's are number one in longevity, Mercedes second. I think this is partly a question of us being enthusiast wanting a car running as it was new while the average Toyota owner doesn't notice when the strut mounts are totally worn. My 960 and 850 has never let me down while driving, not once. During 10 years with these two cars I've only done normal maintenance (except the ABS control unit on the 850).
Besides from the AWD P80 I can't see any other car giving as much drivability, safety and longevity for the bucks as these cars do...

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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by 850 LPT » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:22 am

Cosron wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:47 am
New here with a 1998 V70R that is running up a giant tab at the mechanic, a great guy who knows Volvos and is an honest man. Am getting a lot done up front with the hope that I won't have surprises hitting me all the time, but the cost is challenging my sanity. For me, the best comment I've seen on the site so far is how good it feels to see the car in the driveway and then how great to drive. That's comforting and also knowing how costly new Volvos are, and maybe not as solid.
Hello neighbor and welcome to the site. I wonder if you are having the work done at PB's Automotive in Kent. If not, maybe you should talk to Peter, who is the owner. He is a trained Volvo mechanic and great to deal with. Plus, his work is outstanding, I probably wouldn't drive these cars if I didn't have Pete around for back up when I can't do the work myself. Your strategy makes sense though, the best way to do it if you can afford it.
96' 850 sedan, base, auto, pewter/charcoal, 115k miles
99' S70, base, 5-speed manual, nautic blue/ tan, 213k miles
04' V70, auto, ash gold/ tan, 229k miles, daughters car
05' V70, 5-speed manual, loaded, mistral green/ tan, 146k miles
79' Ford Capri S, Euro Spec 2.8 V6, T9 5-speed manual
58' Porsche Diesel Junior
13' Honda Odyssey :oops:

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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by scot850 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:24 pm

In Sweden you have cars that are generally better maintained due to inspection laws and emissions and safety checks. Here where I live in the wild west of Canada we don't have any inspections unless the vehicle is being imported from another country or province. Even then the inspection is fairly basic on brake condition and suspension. Maintenance is up to the owners and most do the minimum they can get away with and as the cars get older the more the 'backlog' of maintenance becomes. Volvos can be reliable (I've owned them for 40+ years in UK and Canada). So with P80's now being a minimum of 17-18 years old, the backlog of repairs has grown to where most cars make no rational sense to repair as the costs out-weigh the chances of ever making the money back. You have to hope for luck (I never have any when buying Volvos for myself, or any other brand for that matter) and now the good cars are being held onto by their owners and the junk is at the junkyard. Took me 4-5 months and I had to advertise to find a possible car.

I had not planned to keep it, but only use to test a huge number of electrical spare parts I have to eventually get rid of them. However there were so many bad repairs done on the car to keep it running, that even this base/non-turbo has cost more to repair than I had ever hoped. There is no way I can ever get the money back so hopefully the next owner can get to enjoy the car. Is the car unreliable I don't know yet as I have maybe run 7-800km max in it. It does seem to drive well and has only a couple of small rust spots on the roof from stones (I will repair those before selling it).

One the otherside (or darkside) is my V70R. It has been a pain in the ass (it is now called Peter or PITA'R') as for the last 5 years as fast as I fix things something else breaks. In all the years I have owned Volvos I have never had one that has things break as much on this car. It is the demanding mistress. I said before, if it was not rare over here, when the sub-frame rotted out and cracked about 3 years ago it would have been sent to the junkyard. To repair it it took 9 months to find parts all over the world as well as source another frame as then it was obsolete. Volvo have since made more (but they never break according to Volvo!?).

I have known of P80's that have done high mileages over here in North America, and we have many examples owned by enthusiasts on this website (remember the 720,000 mile car in Utah?), but we have to also be realistic these cars are getting older.

The most reliable Volvo I owned was my first one bought in 1975. A 65 122S with the spare engine in the trunk as the owner had not put antifreeze in it and it froze and put a rod though the block. My grandfather and I rebuilt the engine with the best parts of both. The car had about 150,000 miles on it when bought. My family and I drove that car for 5 years and another 70,000 miles and for the last 3 years I drove that poor car hard. It never broke down once, even when stuff needed fixed, it got us home. I regularly serviced it and loved it, but rust was the enemy. Sold it to a guy who ran it for another 6 months and then he sold it again!

My older Volvos were simpler so had less to go wrong with them, so I guess I look at that as more reliable. I have only ever owned 3 Volvos with less than 100,000 miles on them. All the rest have been higher. I don't consider that mileage a high mileage for a Volvo. Maintenance is key.

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by sleddriver » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:56 pm

Hey Neil, I feel your pain! Remember my year-long oddyssey in 2016? Demanding mistress indeed. Fortunately, I haven't had to redo any of it since. Just finished a 900+mi. trip with lots of 80mph interstate (legal) for hours on end. I can cuss with the best of them when in Valhalla Hell.

Fortunately, I don't nor would ever, own a R or even XC due to the 4-wheel drive issues. I do see several XC models here and think to myself "just wait until that needs service". If I lived in the frozen North, I'd buy something else. Your climate is just brutal on old cars. Down here, it's sheer heat & humidity.

I've never kept any car as long as the sled: 20yrs. My previous SAAB 900T was sold when she was 14 @ 256,000mi. Vastly simplier + a 5-speed. No AWD. Req'd no where near the work the V70T has. Also got better MPG.

Problem is that world no longer exists. You can't buy a simple car in the USA if you wanted to due to all of the regulations. It'll be interesting to see how many 2005's are still alive in 2025; any make or model not just Volvo. Likewise for the 2010's (2030?? yea, right...).

New auto's are far too complicated, even for this engineer. The emphasis is on other targets than longevity. They may be recycleable, but they're not necessarily repaireable past a certain point. That point is far shorter than it used to be.

It's a whole, new paradigm. Especially for us who've kept our cars FAR LONGER than most...

Send Snow....We Need To Chill Out Down Here.....
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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by scot850 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:45 pm

It is cold today (around 2C - windchill!). Still no snow, but weather is supposed to get up to +15-17C on the weekend for the PnP 50% off sale! Whoopee!

A Volvo buddy of mine sent me a note about going to look at a 98 V70XC with a supposedly bad angle gear. I told him he was mad and he has thought better of it! I actually know where there are x3 angle gears for the 98 year cars, and 2 are supposedly good according to the owner. Inspite of knowing of this, I still won't bite!

Ah, Saab 900. I bought one of those about 20 years ago at auction. Blew the head gasket on the way home! Brakes were horrible, but I do admit that for me the challenge was getting from A to B without breaking down. Achieving that result was like climbing Mount Everest! Eventually sold the car several months later back to auction and nearly got some money back! It was like a BMW experience about 35 years ago. Car was also a dog, but when it ran well it was good to drive. When it broke it was just plain expensive! I can see the attraction of both of those cars, but wouldn't buy another. I have owned 5 GM vehicles and none had serious mechanical issues. All drove great, started and ran well and were very comfortable for long distances. All were sold to the typical GM rust issues. If they could fix that problem I might have become a GM guy over Volvo guy. Looked at a Traverse/Acadia/Enclave? instead of a XC90. But the transmission issues put me off (similar to the GM trans issue in the early T6 XC90). Apparently anything over 100,000km you are living on borrowed time as my neighbor just found out!

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

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Re: Why I hate my 2000 V70R!

Post by June » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:18 pm

scot850 wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:24 pm
In Sweden you have cars that are generally better maintained due to inspection laws and emissions and safety checks. Here where I live in the wild west of Canada we don't have any inspections unless the vehicle is being imported from another country or province. Even then the inspection is fairly basic on brake condition and suspension. Maintenance is up to the owners and most do the minimum they can get away with and as the cars get older the more the 'backlog' of maintenance becomes. Volvos can be reliable (I've owned them for 40+ years in UK and Canada). So with P80's now being a minimum of 17-18 years old, the backlog of repairs has grown to where most cars make no rational sense to repair as the costs out-weigh the chances of ever making the money back. You have to hope for luck (I never have any when buying Volvos for myself, or any other brand for that matter) and now the good cars are being held onto by their owners and the junk is at the junkyard. Took me 4-5 months and I had to advertise to find a possible car.

I had not planned to keep it, but only use to test a huge number of electrical spare parts I have to eventually get rid of them. However there were so many bad repairs done on the car to keep it running, that even this base/non-turbo has cost more to repair than I had ever hoped. There is no way I can ever get the money back so hopefully the next owner can get to enjoy the car. Is the car unreliable I don't know yet as I have maybe run 7-800km max in it. It does seem to drive well and has only a couple of small rust spots on the roof from stones (I will repair those before selling it).

One the otherside (or darkside) is my V70R. It has been a pain in the ass (it is now called Peter or PITA'R') as for the last 5 years as fast as I fix things something else breaks. In all the years I have owned Volvos I have never had one that has things break as much on this car. It is the demanding mistress. I said before, if it was not rare over here, when the sub-frame rotted out and cracked about 3 years ago it would have been sent to the junkyard. To repair it it took 9 months to find parts all over the world as well as source another frame as then it was obsolete. Volvo have since made more (but they never break according to Volvo!?).

I have known of P80's that have done high mileages over here in North America, and we have many examples owned by enthusiasts on this website (remember the 720,000 mile car in Utah?), but we have to also be realistic these cars are getting older.

The most reliable Volvo I owned was my first one bought in 1975. A 65 122S with the spare engine in the trunk as the owner had not put antifreeze in it and it froze and put a rod though the block. My grandfather and I rebuilt the engine with the best parts of both. The car had about 150,000 miles on it when bought. My family and I drove that car for 5 years and another 70,000 miles and for the last 3 years I drove that poor car hard. It never broke down once, even when stuff needed fixed, it got us home. I regularly serviced it and loved it, but rust was the enemy. Sold it to a guy who ran it for another 6 months and then he sold it again!

My older Volvos were simpler so had less to go wrong with them, so I guess I look at that as more reliable. I have only ever owned 3 Volvos with less than 100,000 miles on them. All the rest have been higher. I don't consider that mileage a high mileage for a Volvo. Maintenance is key.

Neil.
The real problem comes from buying used. Volvo requires next to no maitnance so your lucky if the car got 7 oil changes in 100K, maybe a set of plugs but not likely and naturally will be traded before the original owner will do even a timing belt.

Even on here people proudly boast how long they leave the oil in the engine like some badge of honor, or by doing 10K oil changes instead of 5K the money saved will pay for the PCV system. That theory about the PCV I actually read on MVS but now his engine likely has abnormal wear, and likely full of sludge and who knows the effect on the turbo. And then will be upset about the "poorly designed PCV system".

For these reasons buying used cars even Volvo dicey. Other than the R I never had trouble with all the Volvo cars owned. I really can't remember anything breaking on my current 2004 S80 T6 until March 2016 at 109K which I took the car in for it's scheduled 110K timing belt and found I had 2 cracked cv boots and control arm bushings were beginning to crack resulting in a $5,000.00 repair needed. Since then yes I opted to replace every part of the front suspension from rack to springs, 2 engine mounts, axles, and radiator and hoses, oh the sun shade. Sure it cost quite a bit but other than the struts I now have Volvo's lifetime parts and labor guarantee and my car feels as good to drive as it did new.

She was delivered Christmas 2003 as a present so this Christmas she will turn 14. I am a few miles short of 147K and the "bad from the factory" transmission and "poorly designed PCV system are factory operating normally. According to my dealership my PCV shows no sign of weakening which I attribute to 3K oil changes keeping the engine healthy and clean. The transmission I cannot say because I run her hard and use the standard mode frequently, usually shifting between 4 and 5K. I absolutely love the feeling of power!

Like you I like my car better than any of the current models made. I do like the new 2018 V90 but hate AWD and drive e And Really Like Having a key.

So my belief mirrors yours, +1 it's all about maitnance, but for my part add premium fuel, and Volvo parts only. Finding a 10 year old car properly cared for and the owner is willing to part with has to be next to impossible. Look at these current Volvo models only requiring 10K oil changes are going to be worse to buy used. June
My Volvo cars owned
1989 740 GLT ordered
1994 850 4door standard shift ordered
1996 960 ordered
1998 S90 ordered totalled after 3 weeks
1998 V70 GT dealer stock car
2002 S80 T6 ordered totalled
2004 S80 T6 dealer stock car and current car owned

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