IPD sale XeMODeX - Experts in Volvo Electronics Free shipping all USA - Experts in Brakes
Did you know? 🤔
Logged in users can get email notification of topic replies Log in or register (free).
Amazon Link Buy anything with this and it helps MVS!

'00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil Topic is solved

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

User avatar
jvl
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:33 am
Year and Model: 1999 V70 XC
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Netherlands
jvl

'00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil

Post by jvl » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:41 pm

Hi guys,

So I just reached 200k miles with my 2000 V70XC.
Last few thousand miles, it started to use more oil and smoke on start up.
Had my PCV system cleaned by local indy about 25k Miles ago. Smoking had significanty reduced, as had the oil consumption.

In the last few 1000 miles, oil consumption and smoking increased, so I brought my car in again to local indy.
Before doing this, I drove around with a loose dipstick, and this reduced the smoke and oil consumption.
When it was my turn at the indy (had to wait a few weeks), I asked them to look over the PCV system and PTC nipple. I think they did a thorough and good job. They've even sent me a whatsapp-video while working on it, showing me that compressed air passes through engine block ports into sump, so no obstructions there. On my request, they also cleanedd the PTC nipple (but told me it wasn't really dirty).

They called me to tell me they had cleaned all of it, but that they didn't really find an explanation for crankcase pressure other than blow-by or leaky stem-seals. We agreed on doing a compression test, see the chart in the picture.
They took 2 readings of the #4 cylinder, which is obviously performing less than the others.

The car runs and pulls extremely well. It doesn't use significant amounts of coolant (needed to add half a quart once in 25k miles)
It uses about 1 quart of oil in 2000 or 2500 miles. It used to be much better at 1 quart every 4000 miles.
I'm running 5w40 with added 'oil fortifier' as well as 'seal conditioner'.
I'm considering switching over to 10w40.

My main question is: what should I do now?
I've invested tons of money into the car last year to get it closer to stage 0 and would like to run as many miles as possible without additional investments, but don't want to do further damage.
My indy advises to run it like this (clean PCV system, dipstick tight as normal) and keep an eye on the oil level. We agreed on changing over to 10w40 next oil change. He also says the manifold and valves look extremely clean and tells me not to worry for now about the difference in compression since the engine runs and performs so well.
I really like and trust these guys, but a second opinion from this great forum never hurts.
Any ideas/opinions?

Thanks,

Joost
Attachments
compression_test.jpg
No, I don't magically run 6 cylinders... #4 cylinder was tested twice!
1999 V70XC. Stock, except.... I like tinkering:
electronics
2nd battery (with isolator)
2200w pure sine wave inverter
LED Work lights in tailgate
LED traffic advisor
RC parking lights

audio
stock tweeters front and back
8" underseat powered sub

camping extras
'drawer system' in trunk
solar panel on roofrack



Feel free to PM for pics

User avatar
misha
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:09 pm
Year and Model: '97 850 2.5 20v
Location: Serbia
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 114 times
Serbia
misha

Re: '00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil

Post by misha » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:43 pm

You have a problem with 4th cyl.
Higher viscosity oil will not help on that.
It WOULD help in the case that ALL of 5cyl have lower but EVEN compression.
Could be bad rings on that cyl. or a valve on it that is failing.
These users thanked the author misha for the post:
jvl
'97 850 2.5 20v / fully equipped / Motronic 4.4 from the factory / upgraded with S,V,C,XC70 instrument cluster / polar white wagon
'91 Citroen XM 2.0 SI /fully equipped/mandarine red metallic
History of Volvos in the family:
'71 144 S
'73 144 De Luxe
'78 244 DL
'78 244 DL
'79 244 GLE
'85 340 GLS

MDK
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:43 pm
Year and Model: 1998 xc 70
Location: Ohio
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 28 times
United States of America
MDK

Re: '00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil

Post by MDK » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:38 pm

If it's turbo... not sure... turbo maybe bad .. I've changed a few

User avatar
misha
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:09 pm
Year and Model: '97 850 2.5 20v
Location: Serbia
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 114 times
Serbia
misha

Re: '00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil

Post by misha » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:03 pm

What turbo have to do with bad compression?
Nothing. ;)
'97 850 2.5 20v / fully equipped / Motronic 4.4 from the factory / upgraded with S,V,C,XC70 instrument cluster / polar white wagon
'91 Citroen XM 2.0 SI /fully equipped/mandarine red metallic
History of Volvos in the family:
'71 144 S
'73 144 De Luxe
'78 244 DL
'78 244 DL
'79 244 GLE
'85 340 GLS

User avatar
SuperHerman
Posts: 1369
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:28 pm
Year and Model: 2004 & 2016 XC90
Location: Minnesota
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 140 times
United States of America
SuperHerman

Re: '00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil

Post by SuperHerman » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:47 pm

Thicker engine oil may change the compression numbers if you have an engine ring problem. The change should be seen on all 5 cylinders as an increase. If you have another problem the oil weight change will most likely have zero effect.

I would suggest you pull the spark plugs and look at them. You are looking for #4 being oily relative to the others. I would also at least look down the spark plug hole and examine the piston tops. You are looking for carbon build up - more on #4 than the others. If you have access to a camera, maybe you can look up at the valves. Looking for the same thing. It sounds like your shop did this. Can you ask them exactly what they did to check the valves and valve seats look good? Taking off the exhaust and intake will show the tops of the valves, but not the internal portions which is where your leak is most likely occurring if it is a valve issue and not a ring issue.

Where am I going with this? My guess is that the engine valves are pretty coked up and #4 is not sealing well. Cause is most likely the valve stem seals starting to leak do to age and mileage as they get harder and harder. As a result excess oil is entering the combustion chamber and slowly coke deposits have built up and the valves are unable to fully seal, mostly on #4, but the rest will follow suit if the valve stem seals are starting to fail. At some point the problem will get so pronounced you will burn out valves. At the same time the coke build up may be building on the valve seats causing a physical restriction on closing fully. They could also be pretty pitted at your mileage.

The other possibility is the oil rings are worn and/or the oil ring scrapper is coked up and this is most pronounced on #4. This is not common in Volvos, very common in certain Toyota engines. Running a cleaning solvent and increasing oil change frequency sometimes cleans this up.

I would focus on the valve stem seals. These need to be changed out. Some liquid mechanic bottles allegedly will soften these - not so sure though. You mention that your mechanic has used a "seal conditioner" so s/he is traveling down this same route. Oil rings and liquid mechanic aside - for a complete picture you need to pull the cylinder head top cover. Major surgery. Yes you can change out the valve stem seals without pulling the complete head off and disturbing the head gasket - but you still have the coke build up issue on the valves. You can try some direct inject cleaners or water to solve this, but I would not bet on a great outcome. If I recall your engine correctly the advantage to this approach is you don't have to take off the exhaust and related plus the head gasket is not disturbed. Theoretically you may even be able to not touch the timing. Worse case you do the timing belt, tensioners, waterpump and all related cam seals while in there.

The right way would be to pull the head and clean it up, lap the valves and replace the valve stem seals. A fresh top end job. This is a big and expensive project to pay for, but plenty of write ups on how to DIY.

I have outlined what you need to look for and why you may be having the problems you have. You can go through my notes with your mechanic and they can answer why or why not I am incorrect. They have seen the car and have way more information than I have, and from what you are saying they have touched on much of my concerns. The cheapest approach would be to confirm with your shop they have put in some added solvents to clean the engine oil rings and then let their solutions run the course. After finishing up, I think they are advising you correctly.
These users thanked the author SuperHerman for the post:
jvl

User avatar
jvl
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:33 am
Year and Model: 1999 V70 XC
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Netherlands
jvl

Re: '00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil

Post by jvl » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:32 am

Thank you all for your replies!
SuperHerman, special thanks to you for your elaborate reply and explanations!
SuperHerman wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:47 pm


I would suggest you pull the spark plugs and look at them. You are looking for #4 being oily relative to the others. I would also at least look down the spark plug hole and examine the piston tops. You are looking for carbon build up - more on #4 than the others. If you have access to a camera, maybe you can look up at the valves. Looking for the same thing. It sounds like your shop did this. Can you ask them exactly what they did to check the valves and valve seats look good? Taking off the exhaust and intake will show the tops of the valves, but not the internal portions which is where your leak is most likely occurring if it is a valve issue and not a ring issue.
Exactly: they were also looking for dirt, but said the intake / cilinder look as clean 'as if it has been running on LPG and is brand new'.
I don't think they looked up at the valves though.
SuperHerman wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:47 pm

The cheapest approach would be to confirm with your shop they have put in some added solvents to clean the engine oil rings and then let their solutions run the course. After finishing up, I think they are advising you correctly.
Yes they have, to try and get the stem seals to reseal. Thanks for this confirmation. My mechanic jokingly said 'ofcourse I can fix the blow by: I'll just need to take off the head, redo the stem seals, clean the valves and then check and (if necesary) fix your piston rings.".
He indeed said that stem seals would be the prime suspect and that in some cases the 'seal conditioner' does help to regain sealing ability. He was honest enough to add that it never really fixes the problem, but sometimes help to reduce symptoms.
We agreed that a seal job would be too costly at this stage, he even talked me out of it: "This would be a really expensive job and I would just drive the car as is for now, all of the money you put in isn't reflected in resale value, and you'd only spend money for your own pleasure. If it were my car, i'd just drive it while keeping a close eye on the oil level".

Then for my next question: can I really break something by driving it this way, assuming I keep track of the oil level and top up in time (mechanic says not)?
If I can just keep driving untill it's getting REALLY bad and then have the head pulled & valves fixed, I'd rather postpone the expenditure and -although I really like this car- maybe even consider giving in and just drive it untill it doesn't go anymore, then sell for parts. It cost me a few thousand EUR last year, and I'm now considering that maybe investing in a newer, lower mileage car is worth it in the long run (P2 V/XC's also appeal to me...).

I know this is no real wrenching, but.... I'm also still considering putting in real 'leak stop', had this work very well on a previous car (but that thing really was a wreck, so nothing to lose!). Should I be wary of real 'leak stop' with these Volvo engines?

Same goes for cleaners that are added to fuel and/or into sparkplug holes to loosen up stuck piston rings (like Seafoam?): Indy says it did work for him sometimes, but is also know to sometimes loosen debris stuck on the piston rings which then causes more trouble down the road, so he advised not to seafoam it at this point yet. Any specific cleaner known to you guys that might help with this issue?

Thanks so much again!

Joost
1999 V70XC. Stock, except.... I like tinkering:
electronics
2nd battery (with isolator)
2200w pure sine wave inverter
LED Work lights in tailgate
LED traffic advisor
RC parking lights

audio
stock tweeters front and back
8" underseat powered sub

camping extras
'drawer system' in trunk
solar panel on roofrack



Feel free to PM for pics

User avatar
WhatAmIDoing
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:13 pm
Year and Model: 1998 S70 T5M
Location: North America
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 56 times
Canada
WhatAmIDoing

Re: '00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil  Topic is solved

Post by WhatAmIDoing » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:19 am

Most stop leaks generally work short term but will ruin ALL the seals eventually. Try seafoam, some have reported it working before. There was a good success story posted by a member using seafoam a few months ago. There is a risk you free up junk that is actually helping, but I'm not sure how common that is with seafoam. If you keep driving it, worst case you run out / lose oil pressure and cause damage. The other likely scenario is you burn a valve eventually. If this happens you will get a misfire and a flashing CEL. As long as you shut the engine down quick, it should be okay. Then unplug the injector for the bad cylinder and you can drive on 4 cylinders indefinitely.
'98 S70 T5M - 276,000+mi - forever a project
'99 S70 "AWD" - 220,000+mi - wrecked :cry:
Knows enough to be dangerous :wink:

User avatar
jvl
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:33 am
Year and Model: 1999 V70 XC
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Netherlands
jvl

Re: '00 V70XC runs well but smokes, uses oil

Post by jvl » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 am

Allright, thanks!
I guess I'll just keep a close watch on oil level, switch to a 10w40 high mileage oil. Will monitor CEL, temp gauge closely (as I always do with older cars).
I'm hoping to drive this car for a few more years, but would like to keep costs low if possible.

Thanks for now!!

Joost
1999 V70XC. Stock, except.... I like tinkering:
electronics
2nd battery (with isolator)
2200w pure sine wave inverter
LED Work lights in tailgate
LED traffic advisor
RC parking lights

audio
stock tweeters front and back
8" underseat powered sub

camping extras
'drawer system' in trunk
solar panel on roofrack



Feel free to PM for pics

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post