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Prolonged discussion of Shihab's 1995 850 with Motronic ??? and the rare heated third seat in Nautic Blue

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
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erikv11
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Prolonged discussion of Shihab's 1995 850 with Motronic ??? and the rare heated third seat in Nautic Blue

Post by erikv11 »

The 95 with B5254S did ship with Bosch Motronic 4.3, looks like we are making a mountain out of a molehill. See

http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/199 ... n1995.html

Engine code 55 and emissions code 1 fits everything the photos have shown. OP could you decode the full VIN (or post it here) for us?
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 293k
'06 S60 R, 167k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 130k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k
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erikv11
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Year and Model: 850, S/V70, 06 S60R
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Re: Diary of a 17 y/o with an 850

Post by erikv11 »

RickHaleParker wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:48 pm The B5254S are equipped with Bosch LH-3.2/EZ-129K engine management for model years 1995 and 1996.
1997 and on are equipped with Bosch Motronic 4.4 engine management.
FYI, I have owned two 1996 850s with B5254S, both are Motronic 4.4. One is my current daily driver. Your source here may not be a good one.
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 293k
'06 S60 R, 167k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 130k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k
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RickHaleParker
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Re: Diary of a 17 y/o with an 850

Post by RickHaleParker »

He may have a Heinz 57. When manufacturers have shortages they will cobble together cars with whatever they do have. I had an '86 Ford F150 with EFI. By the book EFI did not come until model year '87. The unit was built in the last quarter of '86.
1998 C70, B5234T3, 16T, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package.
2003 S40, B4204T3, 14T twin scroll AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000.
2004 S60R, B8444S TF80 AWD.
2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0.
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erikv11
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Temp topic

Post by erikv11 »

misha wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:54 am I need Bosch numbers...under the Bosch logo...i can't see them.
It's a 165 ECU, Bosch number is clearly visible. In other words it is a 0 261 203 165 which is Moronic 4.3.

You guys are so stubborn with your Heinz 57 insistence ... Look at this page for just a minute, you will see that every 95, US market, NA automatic 850, is Motronic 4.3. It's not rare or Frankensteined, it is the rule. http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/199 ... n1995.html

- Look at this article here at MVS by Lucky, discussing 95 NA's with Motronic 4.3 viewtopic.php?t=55150

- Look here's another 95 NA M4.3 at MVS ... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61707
- And another ... viewtopic.php?t=55397
- More confirming info: http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/13 ... 70-series/
- Google for 0 261 203 165 you will see eBay is riddled with these Motronic 4.3 ECUs, from 95 850's
- etc.
RickHaleParker wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:09 am Shihab's VIN is the only thing I have seen that says, a 1995 850 with a B5254S was mated to Motronic 4.3.
Then you still haven't looked at that VIN decode link hosted by Volvo. Every one of them was. And if you can click (above) and google, then now you've seen at least a dozen more.
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 293k
'06 S60 R, 167k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 130k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k
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RickHaleParker
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Re: Diary of a 17 y/o with an 850

Post by RickHaleParker »

Then you still haven't looked at that VIN decode link hosted by Volvo. Every one of them was. And if you can click (above) and google, then now you've seen at least a dozen more.

Fire up VIDA, set the profile for Partner group AME, 850, 1995. Look at engine options, the B5254S was not an engine option for a 1995 AME 850 . While you are in VIDA look at the engine management options.

How go back to the VIN decoder and try finding a engine code for a B5254FS, there is not one. If you have a explanation for the discrepancies that is better then Heinz 57, lay it out. However you should know ad hominems won't earn you any points here.
1998 C70, B5234T3, 16T, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package.
2003 S40, B4204T3, 14T twin scroll AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000.
2004 S60R, B8444S TF80 AWD.
2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0.
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misha
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Re: Diary of a 17 y/o with an 850

Post by misha »

Erikv11....i can only say that my engine number is 746xxx and it's from '97 with M4.4.All '97 n/a were M4.4.
This car have engine number 783414...and it CAN'T be made earlier in the '95!!!
Engine number from this car is pointing that it can surely be from '97+...possibly from '98,since '99 were different.
Since the engine number doesn't match with it's production date provided by VIN,it could easily be that engine and management were swapped from a newer donor,BUT wiring remained the same from original management.
And also....all '91-95 n/a engines were B5254FS...not B5254S.(S) were FROM '96.
'95 n/a doesn't have independant MAF....instead...the MAF from '95 n/a was in one piece with airbox....and they are NOT interchangeable because they have different values and different measuring.

I checked out the wiring diagram for a '96...M4.3 DID exist in n/a BUT it was in a '96.
untitled.JPG
Last edited by misha on Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
'97 850 2.5 20v / fully equipped / Motronic 4.4 from the factory / upgraded with S,V,C,XC70 instrument cluster / polar white wagon
'91 Citroen XM 2.0 SI /fully equipped/mandarine red metallic
History of Volvos in the family:
'71 144 S
'73 144 De Luxe
'78 244 DL
'78 244 DL
'79 244 GLE
'85 340 GLS
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misha
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Year and Model: '97 850 2.5 20v
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Re: Diary of a 17 y/o with an 850

Post by misha »

'95 n/a wiring diagram clearly shows LH 3.2 Jetronic management:
l wiring diagrams.pdf
(142.94 KiB) Downloaded 48 times
'95 Turbo shows M4.3:
l wiring diagrams turbo.pdf
(156.35 KiB) Downloaded 33 times
Another one for '95:
3.2.JPG
'97 850 2.5 20v / fully equipped / Motronic 4.4 from the factory / upgraded with S,V,C,XC70 instrument cluster / polar white wagon
'91 Citroen XM 2.0 SI /fully equipped/mandarine red metallic
History of Volvos in the family:
'71 144 S
'73 144 De Luxe
'78 244 DL
'78 244 DL
'79 244 GLE
'85 340 GLS
User avatar
misha
Posts: 4514
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:09 pm
Year and Model: '97 850 2.5 20v
Location: Serbia
Has thanked: 59 times
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Re: Diary of a 17 y/o with an 850

Post by misha »

This as off topic but...how many of us knows that there is B5234FS '94-'97 107kw engine,developed especially for some markets?
Yes...it's 2.3 20v n/a. :shock:
'97 850 2.5 20v / fully equipped / Motronic 4.4 from the factory / upgraded with S,V,C,XC70 instrument cluster / polar white wagon
'91 Citroen XM 2.0 SI /fully equipped/mandarine red metallic
History of Volvos in the family:
'71 144 S
'73 144 De Luxe
'78 244 DL
'78 244 DL
'79 244 GLE
'85 340 GLS
User avatar
erikv11
Posts: 9989
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:03 pm
Year and Model: 850, S/V70, 06 S60R
Location: Iowa
Has thanked: 117 times
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Re: Diary of a 17 y/o with an 850

Post by erikv11 »

RickHaleParker wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:28 am ... you should know ad hominems won't earn you any points here
This remark is absurd. My comments quote people in order to direct comments at their posts, not to attack them personally.

The built-in quoting function is really useful, then one knows the exact context of information from earlier in a thread. I sincerely wish you would use it.
Last edited by erikv11 on Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 293k
'06 S60 R, 167k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 130k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k
User avatar
erikv11
Posts: 9989
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:03 pm
Year and Model: 850, S/V70, 06 S60R
Location: Iowa
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 337 times

Re: Diary of a 17 y/o with an 850

Post by erikv11 »

misha wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:29 am Erikv11....i can only say that my engine number is 746xxx and it's from '97 with M4.4.All '97 n/a were M4.4.
This car have engine number 783414...and it CAN'T be made earlier in the '95!!!
Engine number from this car is pointing that it can surely be from '97+...possibly from '98,since '99 were different.
Since the engine number doesn't match with it's production date provided by VIN,it could easily be that engine and management were swapped from a newer donor,BUT wiring remained the same from original management.
And also....all '91-95 n/a engines were B5254FS...not B5254S.(S) were FROM '96.
'95 n/a doesn't have independant MAF....instead...the MAF from '95 n/a was in one piece with airbox....and they are NOT interchangeable because they have different values and different measuring.

I checked out the wiring diagram for a '96...M4.3 DID exist in n/a BUT it was in a '96.
untitled.JPG
Your point about engine numbers is a good one and I missed that in the thread. I agree a newer engine was likely swapped in but as we well know this would not require and changes to engine management. Doesn't mean it didn't happen yes, but definitely not required.

Earlier in the thread (before it was split out) the comment about sensor interchangeability referred to the cam sensor, not the MAF. The cam sensor is indeed completely interchangeable across 94-98 850 and x70. Maybe 93 too but they are oddballs in many ways and I rarely pay attention to them.

The wealth of book info pointing to Jetronic in 95 NAs is pretty compelling, I am wondering if it relates to European models? I posted two more actual examples of 95 NA autos (American market) with m4.3, that brings the count to 3 without looking very hard, and Lucky's article about 95's and m4.3 counts for a lot because his comments come from actually coding the American market ECUs not from a book.

If someone could post up a handful of examples of 95, automatic NA American market with Jetronic, it would be interesting to see concrete evidence of those as well. So far in this discussion, we have not seen a single actual example, we have only seen Motronic.
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 293k
'06 S60 R, 167k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 130k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k
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