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IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up Topic is solved

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CIK7
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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by CIK7 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:50 pm

BlackBart wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:47 pm
CIK7 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:09 pm
In a typical older car, the manual would make better mpg than auto. But auto is more advanced now so they can put in 8 or 9 gears and manage the fuel. But my idea is that perhaps an 8 speed manual can have better gas mileage than an auto counterpart. I'm curious about 'furious but not fast'. What do you mean? Imo it could be more fun and make the engine more capable. And I do agree with your stance on the possible appearance of the S80.
Just making a joke about a really bad movie involving way too much shifting for a normal car - apparently 20 speeds forward implied. I never saw it.

So, many gears are just like a racing bicycle - you want to keep the engine (you) in the peak torque band so the bicycle (or car) accelerates and climbs efficiently. A bike rider shifts constantly to keep the legs spinning at an optimal rpm. There are tiny steps in ratio in the rear cogs and no time lost in shifting.

IF your envisioned project car had a wide enough torque band, extra gears would not be needed - waste of time changing ratios while acceleration briefly stops each time. Giant American big blocks didn't need anything more than 4 speeds.

If your project car had enough torque and "legs" to continue pulling up the rpm scale, then yes, you could drop the rpm with additional overdrive gears (this is what they did with the new C8 Corvette), and improve the mileage at a given speed. The new Corvette does not need all those gears to go fast - it uses the lower ones to get to max speed quickly, then you can drop the rpm with overdrive ratios and the torque pulls it comfortably.


(The 240 is beautiful only because it is a pure "form follows function" design) The same person, Jan Wilsgaard, designed all the Volvos from the 122 through the 850. His motto was "Simple is beautiful." A Brit, Peter Horbury, designed the P2 line. His ECC concept in the early 90s steered Volvo form through the P2 and P3 era.
That is a good explanation thank you. And yes I agree with you about the last bit.
1998 V70 XC black ($1K trade, Mi:144/147K, immaculate, remodel in progress, 2 updates coming soon)
1998 V70 XC white ($50 cash, junk, donor for my black XC, off to jy soon, PM for parts)
2001 V70 Ba white (sold)
2009 Impala LT 3.5L (sold)

Plans for my 98 XC: 16T/18T, P2 M66 swap, logo/badge delete excl grille

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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by CIK7 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:07 am

callahanoffroad wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:50 pm
I'm sorry I clearly don't understand, are you going to design something and then ask Volvo to build it? Or are you going to build a car that looks like a Volvo? I'm not completely clear on the idea
The process how I see it:
I redesign the VCC body a bit (hopefully with input from Volvo)
I design the engine (with guidance from Volvo)
Volvo builds the engine
Volvo builds the chassis, body, and dashboard
Volvo builds 3 pairs of front seats (so I can swap based on colors)
I outfit the exterior with paint
I outfit the interior with wiring, custom woodwork (console), aluminum (infotainment, climate control), shag carpet (Rolls Royce plush style), and full analine leather (seats, dash, doors)
I want the front of the car to be a little narrower, but other than that, it will look almost same as the pic, grill too. I don't like how big the hips are, nor how the taillights curve with the rear of the hips. Taillights will be almost same as P80 wagon but about 3-6" shorter and all LED.
1998 V70 XC black ($1K trade, Mi:144/147K, immaculate, remodel in progress, 2 updates coming soon)
1998 V70 XC white ($50 cash, junk, donor for my black XC, off to jy soon, PM for parts)
2001 V70 Ba white (sold)
2009 Impala LT 3.5L (sold)

Plans for my 98 XC: 16T/18T, P2 M66 swap, logo/badge delete excl grille

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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by BlackBart » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:10 pm

Oh, I'm sure 5 or 10 million would do it for a custom one-off. Two or three very high end Ferrari customers (Eric Clapton etc) have had a custom Pininfarina design built for them. "Bespoke" is the word, I believe.

Or...learn to sketch and 3D model, build scale prototypes, learn how to do fiberglass molds and metalwork, and go to town.
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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by abscate » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:10 pm

You have to have a build price point in mind for your final version. Thats what will kill this.
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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by CIK7 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:37 pm

BlackBart wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:10 pm
Oh, I'm sure 5 or 10 million would do it for a custom one-off. Two or three very high end Ferrari customers (Eric Clapton etc) have had a custom Pininfarina design built for them. "Bespoke" is the word, I believe.

Or...learn to sketch and 3D model, build scale prototypes, learn how to do fiberglass molds and metalwork, and go to town.
I wouldn't think this cost anymore than what Volvo would build one for, do you? I'm just talking about Volvo building the engine, chassis, and seats. And it would be from company to customer, not company to dealer to customer. So probably cheaper than dealer. From there, I buy the leather, wood, tools. Who made the glass headlights for the 850 and pre-04 P2?
1998 V70 XC black ($1K trade, Mi:144/147K, immaculate, remodel in progress, 2 updates coming soon)
1998 V70 XC white ($50 cash, junk, donor for my black XC, off to jy soon, PM for parts)
2001 V70 Ba white (sold)
2009 Impala LT 3.5L (sold)

Plans for my 98 XC: 16T/18T, P2 M66 swap, logo/badge delete excl grille

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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by CIK7 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:56 pm

abscate wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:10 pm
You have to have a build price point in mind for your final version. Thats what will kill this.
Yes that is a good idea. So the 2019 Volvo v90 starts at over $51k. I'm talking about using a much older design (850/V70/pre-04 P2), as well as mechanical, but also a hydraulic lift kit. I have to consider using at least the first rough product (if not a 2nd for redo) in a safety test, so that would require a 2nd (if not 3rd) to be made as the finished product. I think the whole ordeal estimate is $150k budget. Of that, I think the finished product would be $60k. Do I really want to trust the Chinese (Geely Holding Co) for something like this? I guess answer would be NO. Volvo is at the bottom nowadays. What about seeing if AB Volvo (trucks) would be willing to take on the challenge? That'd be weird but at least it'd be true Swedish. I'm gonna look into that.
1998 V70 XC black ($1K trade, Mi:144/147K, immaculate, remodel in progress, 2 updates coming soon)
1998 V70 XC white ($50 cash, junk, donor for my black XC, off to jy soon, PM for parts)
2001 V70 Ba white (sold)
2009 Impala LT 3.5L (sold)

Plans for my 98 XC: 16T/18T, P2 M66 swap, logo/badge delete excl grille

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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by BlackBart » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:57 am

Those numbers are unrealistic. They are a manufacturer. They design, engineer, and manufacture nearly identical "units" in the hundreds of thousands on an assembly line. A completely custom one-off would be astronomical, and why would they be interested in the expense and the liability? Even Ferrari has only done a handful in the modern, post-coachbuilder era. And I believe they didn't change the underlying chassis at all, so that the structural engineering and crash certification wasn't compromised.

Now I'm all about well-designed custom, hand-built cars, but they are just that - hand built. Go for it.

This is the full-size model of Eric Clapton's SP-12 custom, by Pininfarina. He's a select customer and a world celebrity, and they cater to those people. He wanted it to have some of the character of the flat 12 BB (Ferrari trivia alert!! That never stood for Berlinetta Boxer - it stood for Brigitte Bardot!)
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... te-bardot/

It's a 458 underneath, and is "just" a re-design / re-skin of that car. It was only $5 million US, after the purchase price of a 458.
184kqmqdok2mwjpg.jpg
184kqmqdok2mwjpg.jpg (62.35 KiB) Viewed 21 times
184kqntu8vkiujpg.jpg
184kqntu8vkiujpg.jpg (68.04 KiB) Viewed 21 times
ex-1984 245T wagon
1994 850T wagon
2004 XC70 wagon BlackBetty
Is it time for a 1964 122 wagon?

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CIK7
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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by CIK7 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:04 pm

BlackBart wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:57 am
Those numbers are unrealistic. They are a manufacturer. They design, engineer, and manufacture nearly identical "units" in the hundreds of thousands on an assembly line. A completely custom one-off would be astronomical, and why would they be interested in the expense and the liability? Even Ferrari has only done a handful in the modern, post-coachbuilder era. And I believe they didn't change the underlying chassis at all, so that the structural engineering and crash certification wasn't compromised.

Now I'm all about well-designed custom, hand-built cars, but they are just that - hand built. Go for it.

This is the full-size model of Eric Clapton's SP-12 custom, by Pininfarina. He's a select customer and a world celebrity, and they cater to those people. He wanted it to have some of the character of the flat 12 BB (Ferrari trivia alert!! That never stood for Berlinetta Boxer - it stood for Brigitte Bardot!)
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... te-bardot/

It's a 458 underneath, and is "just" a re-design / re-skin of that car. It was only $5 million US, after the purchase price of a 458.

184kqmqdok2mwjpg.jpg

184kqntu8vkiujpg.jpg
Oh man. Crazy stuff.
1998 V70 XC black ($1K trade, Mi:144/147K, immaculate, remodel in progress, 2 updates coming soon)
1998 V70 XC white ($50 cash, junk, donor for my black XC, off to jy soon, PM for parts)
2001 V70 Ba white (sold)
2009 Impala LT 3.5L (sold)

Plans for my 98 XC: 16T/18T, P2 M66 swap, logo/badge delete excl grille

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Re: IDEA of mine: Volvo Concept Car, built from the ground up

Post by abscate » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:07 pm

It was only $5 million US, after the purchase price of a 458.
The 5M was ok, but that extra 458 buy broke the deal for me..
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