2011 6cyl: No Start (turns over) (edited)

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carboncow
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2011 6cyl: No Start (turns over) (edited)

Post by carboncow »

Helping a buddy with his wives R-design with the 6, non turbo

About 120K miles. They have only had it about the last 20K

She drove the XC90 down the road the other day...it bucked a couple times and stopped, they had to push it home. Turns over fine. He thought he smelled electrical burn but after sitting a couple day before I could get there I didn't smell much. ECM has good communication although is warm to touch with nothing more then key in position 2 and Vida/Dice hooked up.

Vida Dice has no issues (no communication, open circuits or module concerns) although there is one error related to the torque converter solenoid (see below).

It turns over fine...

So the old spark or fuel question I guess...

EDIT:

OK here is what we have tested after watching many youtube videos and learning how to use Vida/Dice better.
  • Fuel pressure is being recorded at over 470 k/pas so I'm assuming that is a good pump. You smell it out the pipe from all our start attempts.
  • Doing tests on the immobilizer system shows a "Start Approved" situation. Switching keys (two of them) shows they each are showing unique in the system and both are start permitted.
  • Doing tests on shift locks/gear shows correct. I believe it's the Start Lock Request Status "Start Approved"
  • Battery is months old and I fully charged it and put a load tester on it...100% good battery although the dash does say Battery Save Mode even knowing Vida/Dice shows 12.5+v at any given module
Although it will not start I see no trouble codes after removing the few that were there. I chocked up many being from the battery being on/off/on the vehicle. The only code that showed at the time of the vehicle stopping on the owner was:

TCM-P074468 @ 8/30/18 @ 5:56PM >> torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Intermittent -Algorithm Based Failures

I suspect that error is a symptom of the car shutting down while in gear and not the cause. Please correct me if that persist issue could be the cause of the no start.

I've had my T5 run with multiple bad coil packs...so my assumption is that one or two bad packs should allow a half hearted start. The plugs are probably very old but I also believe they are not suspect as the driver said it was purring like a kitten around town and on the freeway.

Where should I go from here other then a Volvo shop?
Shawn F.

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2013 & 2015 S60 T5
2008 Vw Touareg T2 V6

1989 Sea Ray 340 Sundander
2007 Sea Doo Challenger 180 SE

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RickHaleParker
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Post by RickHaleParker »

So the old spark or fuel question I guess...

Give it a shot of ether, see if it hits.

Did you check the timing belt?
If the timing belt came loose and jumped it can created a crank but no start condition with no codes. A failed tensioner or a stretched timing belt can cause this condition.
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Post by oragex »

This owner here just had his car stalled because of a busted coil pack... agree that usually one will only cause misfire but it seems we learn everyday.. this would make sense with the electrical burn smell. If so, inspect the spark plugs but also the thermostat which is known to fail and overheat the engine on these 3.2

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=86501

viewtopic.php?p=481081

carboncow
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Post by carboncow »

RickHaleParker wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:50 am So the old spark or fuel question I guess...

Give it a shot of ether, see if it hits.

Did you check the timing belt?
If the timing belt came loose and jumped it can created a crank but no start condition with no codes. A failed tensioner or a stretched timing belt can cause this condition.
Thx, but it's a timing chain on the 3.2L
Shawn F.

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2013 & 2015 S60 T5
2008 Vw Touareg T2 V6

1989 Sea Ray 340 Sundander
2007 Sea Doo Challenger 180 SE

carboncow
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Post by carboncow »

oragex wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:05 am This owner here just had his car stalled because of a busted coil pack... agree that usually one will only cause misfire but it seems we learn everyday.. this would make sense with the electrical burn smell. If so, inspect the spark plugs but also the thermostat which is known to fail and overheat the engine on these 3.2

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=86501

viewtopic.php?p=481081
So you are stating that in this example a bad coil pack caused a no start issue? That would be a new one worth considering.
Shawn F.

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2013 & 2015 S60 T5
2008 Vw Touareg T2 V6

1989 Sea Ray 340 Sundander
2007 Sea Doo Challenger 180 SE

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Post by jimmy57 »

A bad coil can shut down the power stage in the ECM from too muh load. Majority of coils develop primary to secondary shorts or secondary short to ground.

carboncow
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Post by carboncow »

jimmy57 wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:30 am A bad coil can shut down the power stage in the ECM from too muh load. Majority of coils develop primary to secondary shorts or secondary short to ground.
Thanks good info. Do these shorts usually show up as a blown fuse and/or a code in Vida?

I've seen in some vehicles no mentions of bad coils in the OEM software but a good old cheap OBD2 sensor can see errors on individual cylinders (sometimes).
Shawn F.

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2013 & 2015 S60 T5
2008 Vw Touareg T2 V6

1989 Sea Ray 340 Sundander
2007 Sea Doo Challenger 180 SE

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Post by jimmy57 »

It would have a code usually and if the offending part is unplugged and key cycled off for 20-30 seconds and then back on it would reset and operate coils again.

That it didn't set a code from the sputtering it did before shut down is puzzling. The Denso ECMs are usually pretty quick to set at least the general misfire (p0300) code if it misses.

carboncow
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Post by carboncow »

jimmy57 wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:54 am It would have a code and if the offending part is unplug and key cycled off for 20-30 seconds and then back on it would reset and operate coils again.
Thx Jimmy. We saw no codes related to ignition/coils in Vida but will have a look at coils tonight. I suspect if one is shorting and shutting down the ECM then we could take each one offline one by one and see if it will fire on 5 cyl. But since you claimed it should have thrown a code for a shorted coil I am suspect of this route unless I'm misunderstanding your comments.
Shawn F.

2001 V70 T5
2003 XC70
1996 Vw Passat Tdi
1999 Porsche Boxster
2004 Chevy Suburban LT 5.3L
2013 & 2015 S60 T5
2008 Vw Touareg T2 V6

1989 Sea Ray 340 Sundander
2007 Sea Doo Challenger 180 SE

jimmy57
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Post by jimmy57 »

Do that anyway as fault detection by the modules is not perfect or 100% reliable. I would verify that it has no spark. If it has spark and smells like raw fuel something else could be wrong.

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