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2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo XC90s. The XC90 proved to be very popular, and very good for Volvo's sales numbers, since its introduction in model year 2003 (North America).
rp2005
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rp2005

Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by rp2005 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:24 pm

mrbrian200 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:45 pm
I was thinking the high temperature indication could be due to contact resistance in the electrical connectors. Resistance in the wiring would add to the PTC resistor/sensor giving an artificially high temperature reading. Together with the time of year (winter salt spray in the engine compartment still present + cool-damp-wet atmospheric conditions that can lead to heavy condensation under the hood when sitting longer periods such as overnight. It could well be a valve body gone bad as superherman seems to lean. I just wouldn't replace that first until you've ruled out the possibility of an external wiring issue. If the temp DTC weren't present I would probably go with the valve body straight away, which you may well end up replacing.
Is there a tutorial you can point me to so that I can look into this myself?



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SuperHerman
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Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by SuperHerman » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:00 pm

Always two things here: 1) Regarding mrbrian200's comments - I am not versed in this but a VOM test should tell you. There should be specs on what the ohm reading should be. That said a rebuild valve body without solenoids may not solve the problem if the problem is a) in the solenoids, or 2) as mrbrian200 suggest in the electrical connectors or on the harness side.

2) Rebuilt valve body reliability depends on the rebuilder. Following some postings people have had hit and miss on rebuilt valve bodies, generally - not your car specific - on this forum. So you need a reputable shop and rebuild. In Chicago area you should not have any issues finding a facility to rebuild your valve body. Whether you let them do all the work or just the valve body rebuild you will have a warranty you can collect on. Letting the shop do all the work shifts all of the warranty work on their shoulders. A ten year warranty on a $600 valve body that costs you $1500 to have installed does not help. Better pay them the $2100 (mostly made up numbers) so that if you have a problem they eat the $1500 not you.

Call around and talk to the shops - make sure they will be there in 5 years for warranty work as some close after a few years for various reasons - not always bad work -- sometimes lack of work or retirement. If you find the right place they will handle mrbrian200's concerns correctly and take care of the problem start to finish.

There is nothing magical about the Volvo - transmission shops fix transmissions, including valve bodies. All transmissions work in the same basic manner. As I stated earlier your transmission is used in a large number of vehicles. You will get a good feel of ability by calling around and talking - nothing better than your own instincts to know what you are getting.



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Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by RickHaleParker » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:22 pm

SuperHerman wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:00 pm
As I stated earlier your transmission is used in a large number of vehicles.
The Aisin Warner TF-80 SC transmission was used by BMW, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Lancia, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Opel, Vauxhall, Sabb, Hyundai, Jaguar, Land Rover, Luxgen, Mahindra, Mazda, Citroën, Peugeot, Renault, Suzuki and Volvo.

It is not like the TF-80 SC is secret knowledge.


Platform: P80 1998 C70, B5234T3, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package, Plant: Uddevalla Sweden.

Platform: X40 (Nedcar) 2003 S40, B4204T3, AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000. Plant: Born Netherlands.

Platform P2 2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, Plant Torslanda Sweden.
----------------------------------------------------------------
1997 S90, B6304S, AW30-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4 - Sold

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mrbrian200

Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by mrbrian200 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:04 am

Easiest way to check for contact resistance would probably be: If VIDA shows the trans temp (I think it does, never looked) you'd compare trans temp to ambient after the car has been sitting overnight or longer. Should be within a few degrees of the ambient temp sensor as shown in the ECU parameters. Outside that you'd need the pinout for the connector to manually probe the sensor at the TCM connector against a table/temp chart, which I'm not sure about for that sensor. But a trans shop is likely to know what it's suppose to be.

If the XC was fine a couple three weeks ago when temps stayed down below freezing, then started acting up a ~week or two ago when temps raised and the early spring 'cool wet/damp season' went into full tilt, like it is again this morning, I would put an electrical/wiring fault higher in the list of 'possibilities'.



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ggleavitt

Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by ggleavitt » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:50 am

I read the thread again from start to finish, for the third time now.

One suggestion very early on, because the printout noted that the faults were “not active in the current drive cycle”, was to erase all the codes and see what came back. Was this ever done?

Another suggestion was to validate the existing code history, see when the errors first occurred and how many times they occurred afterward. Was this ever done?

It's not a stretch to assume that there's an issue in the valve body considering that 2 of the codes originate from components in the assembly. But what might be a stretch to me is that the components are reporting range and performance issues, not outright failures. Same goes for the TCM to ECM code, its signal quality versus signal failure.

Seems to me if you were to get more granularity into the errors, you might be able to hone in a little closer what's really going on. I would agree that the codes could be related to connectivity, checking TCM is probably a good area to investigate, but after the codes are re-read.

On another note, this car is new to you but it's not new. If you're having transmission issues for low speed slipping, I'm wondering if someone might have tried to replace the fluid in the transmission before you came around and used something that's not really designed for this particular gearbox. Does happen, mechanic puts Dex-whatever in instead of a straight up JWS3309 fluid. I have no idea what symptoms arise when that occurs but to me it’s worth considering as part of the overall problem statement.

Last but not least, go find yourself a copy of VIDA and get it loaded on a PC so you can see the reference information we’re seeing. You won’t be able to connect to the car until you purchase a DICE unit, but you’ll have much more information on hand to make an intelligent decision about what to do next with your car. Someone should be able provide a link for the software on this site, if you cannot find one PM me and I’ll send you a link from another site.

Good luck


2005 2.5T AWD-195k
2008 V8 AWD Sport-125k

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Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by matthew1 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:59 am

ggleavitt wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:50 am
One suggestion very early on, because the printout noted that the faults were “not active in the current drive cycle”, was to erase all the codes and see what came back. Was this ever done?

Another suggestion was to validate the existing code history, see when the errors first occurred and how many times they occurred afterward. Was this ever done?
In my years of troubleshooting/fixing, this is sage advice. Measure twice, cut once.

Then go after the lowest hanging fruit, which ggleavitt suggests might be non-compliant fluid, which is the lowest of the fruit here. Easy fix if it's the case.


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rp2005
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rp2005

Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by rp2005 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:03 pm

One suggestion very early on, because the printout noted that the faults were “not active in the current drive cycle”, was to erase all the codes and see what came back. Was this ever done?
Yeah the codes weren't showing when I took them to the second shop and they never saw them firing. My wife then drove it a few days and it came back the day before we took it to the third shop. The only code that the third shop read was the solenoid code.
Another suggestion was to validate the existing code history, see when the errors first occurred and how many times they occurred afterward. Was this ever done?
I don't think so. I just called my mechanic and he said he can only see the most recent code and can't see how many times it's firing.
It's not a stretch to assume that there's an issue in the valve body considering that 2 of the codes originate from components in the assembly. But what might be a stretch to me is that the components are reporting range and performance issues, not outright failures. Same goes for the TCM to ECM code, its signal quality versus signal failure.

Seems to me if you were to get more granularity into the errors, you might be able to hone in a little closer what's really going on. I would agree that the codes could be related to connectivity, checking TCM is probably a good area to investigate, but after the codes are re-read.
He's going to check out the TCM and get back to me. Hopefully with some good news.
On another note, this car is new to you but it's not new. If you're having transmission issues for low speed slipping, I'm wondering if someone might have tried to replace the fluid in the transmission before you came around and used something that's not really designed for this particular gearbox. Does happen, mechanic puts Dex-whatever in instead of a straight up JWS3309 fluid. I have no idea what symptoms arise when that occurs but to me it’s worth considering as part of the overall problem statement.
Also just asked my mechanic about this. He says the fluid looks fine and it's the right fluid.
Last but not least, go find yourself a copy of VIDA and get it loaded on a PC so you can see the reference information we’re seeing. You won’t be able to connect to the car until you purchase a DICE unit, but you’ll have much more information on hand to make an intelligent decision about what to do next with your car. Someone should be able provide a link for the software on this site, if you cannot find one PM me and I’ll send you a link from another site.
I'll definitely try and get a copy of this. The only problem is that I only have Macs but maybe I can spin up a VM to run the software.



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ggleavitt

Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by ggleavitt » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:41 pm

All the software being posted these days is a VM image, do an internet search for "running vida vm image on mac" and you'll see that you have a few options.

Keep an open mind about this problem, your MY is higher than the "known" 2-3 flare due to premature solenoid bore wear plus it's a 3.2 which means you're not banging the transmission hard like with a V8. Could well be an issue with VB and if this were a pre-06J transmission, it would be a far easier leap to make. But it's not.

With all due respect to your mechanic's comment, if at 129k miles the transmission fluid looks "fine", it may have already been replaced. And the wrong stuff is pretty much the same color as the right stuff IIRC.


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Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by xHeart » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:52 pm

ggleavitt wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:41 pm
With all due respect to your mechanic's comment, if at 129k miles the transmission fluid looks "fine", it may have already been replaced. And the wrong stuff is pretty much the same color as the right stuff IIRC.
On the money!
First step of taking ownership of a USED vehicle is to replace and restore ALL fluids to specification. Reports and records are just what they are.


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rp2005
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Re: 2009 XC90 Tranmission Service Urgent

Post by rp2005 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:06 pm

On the money!
First step of taking ownership of a USED vehicle is to replace and restore ALL fluids to specification. Reports and records are just what they are.
I called him back and I'm having him do a drain and fill flush of the transmission fluid and then monitor it to see how it's performing. This mechanic shop only uses Volvo fluid so I know the right stuff will be put in.



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