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2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start Topic is solved

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo XC90s. The XC90 proved to be very popular, and very good for Volvo's sales numbers, since its introduction in model year 2003 (North America).
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pgill
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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by pgill » Thu May 23, 2019 10:56 pm

Post deleted

I see you found the root cause

Excellent find



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dandan
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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by dandan » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:27 pm

Welp, after about a week of a couple short drives I decided to drive to work with it. I thought I found the problem with the kink in the fuel pump line... I am now stranded at work.

Turns over, can hear the pump working. It starts up and bogs down and dies. basically back to square one with the problem. Short of replacing all the coils I'm not sure what to do. With out enough liquid income to take this to a mechanic i'm still stuck attempting this myself. What could be the problem now? I filled the tank up with pure 91 about 80% and drove about an 1/8 of a tank out of it. I had just driving to lunch and back, but trying to start it a few hours after was not fruitful.



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pgill
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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by pgill » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:28 am

Dan^2,

I deleted too soon.

Here is the short version of what I wrote.

The P3's with the 3.2 do have a problem with hot soaking and then not starting.

For your P2 I am not certain exactly how the hot start problem would present itself.

Let me describe what happens in my P3

1. Turn engine off but don't remove the key (i.e. to pump gas)

2. Foot on the brake and push the start button and engine won't start or it will run very rough

To fix the problem I have to un-dock the key and then it functions normally.

I realize that you don't have a dock and that you have a conventional key.

In addition to the problem that I described above my car won't start if I press the button too soon after docking the key.

With this in mind I recommend that you do the following

1. Enter the vehicle do not step on the brake

2. Put the key in the ignition don't turn it (count to five)

3. Turn the key to the on position (count to five)

4. Put your foot on the brake (count to five)

5. Move the gear selector to Neutral (If it won't move then you have another problem)

6. Turn the key to the start position

7. Look at the Tachometer (does the needle move)

Try this and let me know if it makes any difference at all

Things that can break that will prevent starting

Crankshaft position sensor - if the signal isn't strong then the engine may not start

Clogged fuel filter - this seem s very unlikely you don't have problems once it starts

Broken fuel pressure sending unit - The system is return-less and it is strongly dependent on this signal

Poor communication between modules (that's why you count to five, see above)

Good luck

Paul



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dandan
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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by dandan » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:47 pm

I tried this just now, at first crank nothing, second crank it moved the needle then stopped, third crank did nothing. It seem to deplete my battery fairly quickly attempting to start. Its now back on the charger.
I have replaced the crankshaft? or camshaft position sensors.(the 2 sensors on top of the head)
The fuel filter is new. Is the sending unit the second piece in the fuel pump on the other side of the gas tank? I have opened it back up to make sure there was fuel in the "cup" of the pump.

edit: also changed the fuel pressure sensor and the battery last September when the issue started, I change the fuel pump and it drove great for a month or two then died. I pulled the pump and replaced it again discovering the kink. Installed a second fuel pump and it started up.



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pgill
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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by pgill » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:18 pm

Don't forget to do a hard reset.

The computers don't like it if the voltage gets too low.

Hard reset = remove the negative post from the battery and let the system voltage drop to zero (capacitors need to discharge)

Since you are charging the battery you should just remove the negative terminal and then charge the battery.

Replace the negative when you are done charging.

Thanks

Paul



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dandan
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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by dandan » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:33 pm

Absolutely, each time I charge the battery I pull the negative. It may be an old wives tale but I heard years ago to disconnect it just in case you don’t blow any of the computer components.



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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by pgill » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:46 pm

CKP.jpg
pressure.jpg
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dandan
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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by dandan » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:37 pm

Would there be a way to test this sensor or check functionality in vida?



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pgill
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Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by pgill » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:20 am

Dan^2,

I don't have VIDA so I can't answer that.

Did you replace the sensor shown above with the RED ARROW?

If yes what did you buy? Part number? Manufacturer?

From the LR2 manual (note: this should be similar for the P2 XC90 but I can't be sure)


Starting process This will be different for the XC90 because you don't have a dock just a key
With the remote handset inserted in the start control module and the stop/start button is pressed, the start control
module issues battery voltage high signal on the LIN bus connection to the CJB and the fuel pump is run for 2 seconds to
prime the fuel system. The CJB uses this signal together with the stop lamp switch signal and issues a crank request
message on the high speed CAN bus to the ECM.

Fuel Pressure Regulation
Fuel pressure regulation is controlled by the ECM to respond to fuel pressure demand and provides stepless control of the
pump output using the FPDM to control the pump operation. The ECM can vary the fuel pressure to between 55.1 lbf/in2
(3.8 bar) and 72.5 lbf/in2 (5 bar). The high pressure is only used in extreme conditions such as heavy engine loads and
engine starts.
The ECM uses the signals from the fuel rail pressure/temperature sensor to determine information regarding the pressure
and temperature of the fuel and provide precise injection periods, improving engine starting under all conditions. The
advantage of controlling the fuel pump output pressure are that pump power consumption is reduced, lowering the load on
the power supply system and reducing fuel consumption, improved service life of the pump and reduced fuel pump noise.


My LR2 doesn't like to start when the battery gets weak, so I just replace it every 4 years and it starts every time.

The Module that actually controls the fuel pump in mounted in the fender behind the liner on early XC90's (I don't know the date that it moved to inside the vehicle) but if the contact pins for the module get corroded then it will cause the type of intermittent problem that you are having.

I purchased a simple current gauge so that I could watch the power that the module was consuming.

From memory the current was 3 to 5 Amps.

And my LR2 would crank until the fuel pump actually starts using the 3 to 5 Amps and then it will start immediately. The delay is very noticeable possibly 0.1 seconds or 0.2 seconds.

Here is the meter that I use, just remove the fuse and insert the meter and turn it on.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W ... UTF8&psc=1

For my S80 and my LR2 the fuse is by the front passengers feet, for the XC90 I have no idea.


Good Luck

Paul



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pgill
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pgill

Re: 2008 3.2 stalls/dies/won't start

Post by pgill » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:55 am

Take a look at this link for the fuel pump module location.

Volvo call this the Pump Electronic Module (PEM)

https://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-xc9 ... ial-71534/

Description of the PEM from Land Rover (Note: FPDM is the same as PEM)

Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM)
The FPDM receives a battery supply via the fuel pump relay in the CJB. The relay is energised by the CJB when a request is
received from the ECM. Two wires connect the FPDM to the fuel pump motor and a ground is via a body ground point. The
ECM is connected to the FPDM on a single wire and this is used to control the pump pressure output and consequently the
pump output pressure. The ECM uses signals from the MAP sensor, the fuel rail pressure/temperature sensor and the
MAF/IAT sensor to determine and control the pump output.

The ECM outputs a PWM signal to the FPDM. The frequency of the signal determines the duty cycle of the FPDM which
subsequently controls the pump pressure output. The frequency of the PWM signal represents half of the 'on' time of the
pump. If the ECM outputs a PWM signal of 50% on time, the FPDM will operate the pump at 100% (permanently on). If the
ECM outputs a PWM signal of 5%, the FPDM will operate the pump at 10% on time. The FPDM will only operate the fuel
pump if it receives a PWM signal from the ECM of between 4% and 50%. If the ECM requires the pump to be stopped, the
ECM transmits a PWM signal at a cycle of 75%.

If the power supply to the FPDM from the CJB or the fuel pump relay is disrupted for any reason, the fuel pump will not
operate. The FPDM is monitored by the ECM for faults.

Good luck

Paul



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