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2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo XC90s. The XC90 proved to be very popular, and very good for Volvo's sales numbers, since its introduction in model year 2003 (North America).
cn90
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2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by cn90 »

Hi guys,

Since the 2.5T engine is common to S60, S80, and XC90...

My 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K develops an oil leak at the right subframe area, very classic for cam seal leak.

My plan is to replace both cam seals (I have the cam lock tool), and both rear plastic plugs.

My question is about the crank seal (oil pump seal): I rarely see this leak before 200K.
So I can leave this crank seal alone bc I hate removing the crank pulley and oil pump if I don't have too!
Please advise...
2004 V70 2.5T 100K+
2005 XC90 2.5T 110K+
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kallekula
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by kallekula »

Why don't you start by checking if it leaks first and take it from there?

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chitownV
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by chitownV »

Check, as I am not sure you will need the rear cam plastic plugs as you may have double variable valve timing, so cam sensor housings on both rears. When you use the alignment tool, it won't line up as the VVT may have adjusted the cams. So, you have to move the cams into alignment using the tool to be locked/bolted...sounds easier than it is.

What you want to get first, when you do the four cam seals are the VVT o-rings and the cam solenoid plugs. Seals are cheap so buy an extra front and rear in case you misalign one during installation.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... s-9497786s
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... ug-1275364

I would deal with the other seals after doing the camshaft & VVT seals/o-rings. Add, setting both VVTs, doing the belts and timing again, this job in itself is a whole day of work and another day of recovery since you will be hunched over.
2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 150k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot
cn90
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by cn90 »

I just took some photos of my 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K miles...

- If you have a shop change the seals, then do all 3 (cam x 2 and crank x 1) to save money later on labor.

- Since I do my own and I rarely see a crank seal leak before 180K-200K, I will replace cam seals x2 and leave the crank seal alone for now. I can always do the crank seal later w/o the need to remove the VVT hubs (and locking the rear of the camshafts)...

- Here you can see oil on subframe and timing cover. The area below the CRANK pulley is dry.


Image


Image


Image
2004 V70 2.5T 100K+
2005 XC90 2.5T 110K+
chitownV
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by chitownV »

Did you remove the timing cover to inspect? That almost looks like a VVT o-ring leak instead of a camshaft seal seep.

BTW, there are 4 cam seals, 2 VVT o-rings, and 2 plugs with o-rings (order the plugs). You will have full access/exposure to the rear seals when you prepare for the locking tool. They are easier to do than the front seals. Now you will need a new timing belt too if it was exposed to oil.

Also, that oil will soften the rubber control arm bushings if it gets in.
2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 150k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot
cn90
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by cn90 »

VVT O-ring, if bad, will cause INTERNAL leak, i.e., no activation of VVT.
I posted detail in the other forum.
2004 V70 2.5T 100K+
2005 XC90 2.5T 110K+
chitownV
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by chitownV »

From experience, you would have a better idea of VVT leak with the cover off. And yes, from personal experience, it can leak out as well as affect the VVT. Where do you think the oil would go?

If you have ever taken one apart, you will see how the VVT hub slides onto the camshaft and a leak from the o-ring will leak out. The forums confirm this.
2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 150k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot
cn90
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by cn90 »

Please see the photos posted by jordank, ignore some of my photos in the link below.

https://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-xc9 ... ded-81251/

Here is the photo posted by jordank:

Volvo-VVT-Leak.png
Volvo-VVT-Leak.png (8.77 KiB) Viewed 390 times
2004 V70 2.5T 100K+
2005 XC90 2.5T 110K+
chitownV
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by chitownV »

Unfortunately, the picture you gave isn't to scale and doesn't show how easily oil leaking from the VVT o-ring can go past the camshaft seal, especially an older/hard one. The camshaft seal lip is deeper than that and flow can easily get into it. However, you can see exactly how extra oil flow will flow down past the camshaft seals.

From your post, same thread:
Image

Speaking from experience, again. When the VVT o-ring goes, it is at a higher flow/pressure than what the camshaft seal sees. When this happens, you can get the oil flow you see on your XC90. This can affect camshaft seals (doesn't have to) and since there usually isn't constant oil flow or pressure to the cam seals (at ends of the camshaft), the oil can make the camshaft seal leak. However, if it is just the camshaft seal, then the leak can be slower. We are talking about old and aged seals that don't have to be broken to leak oil, but when there is extra flow from leaking VVT o-rings, it can definitely leak the volume of oil you see on your vehicle.

Again, you will need 4 cam seals not 2 since the rear will be exposed anyways, 2 o-rings, and 2 end plugs. The end plugs can leak too when re-installing with its aged/worn/flat o-rings. You will need a new belt too if there was oil. Best to remove the timing cover to inspect the solenoid gasket as well. Hope my direct experience helps.
2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 150k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot
cn90
Posts: 6903
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Re: 2005 XC90 2.5T with 120K and leaking cam seal, do I leave crank seal alone?

Post by cn90 »

I have studied this very well and spoke to Volvo mechanics.
I have studied the cutaway view of Volvo factory manual.
I know this topic very well.
I will explain again...

- A bad CAM seal: EXTERNAL leak onto timing belt cover, subframe etc.

- A bad VVT O-ring: INTERNAL leak: the VVT cannot retard/advanceas designed. But there will be NO EXTERNAL leak.

Again, I will replace:

- FRONT Cam Seals x2 bc they are leaking (not much but a drop on garage floor per day).

- VVT O-rings x2: still thinking about these.
If you look at the S60 forum (same topic), abscate stated that brand matters.
I might go with "Allied" brand offered by FCPEuro. OTOH, a bad brand can turn a "non-issue" (let's say the O-rings still perform their function well) into a cam advance/retard issue (if the new O-ring material is not good, it can leak in a few months).

- REAR Cam Seals: no leak at 120K, but since I am in there, I may as well replace these.
2004 V70 2.5T 100K+
2005 XC90 2.5T 110K+
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