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Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on the Volvo S80 model. Sometimes called an "executive car", the S80 was and continues to be Volvo's top-of-the-line passenger car.
RocketUSA
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:25 pm
Year and Model: v70 2004
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Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by RocketUSA »

I'm not sure really where to start, so I'll start at the beginning. Skip to the bottom if you'd like my concise questions. I'll really try to add all of the pertinent details, but I might miss something, so if I need to clarify I'll be happy to do so. Sometimes I just need someone to talk to about difficult technical issues. I'm not looking for someone to solve all of my problems. I just need to connect with those that have already fought the fight, or at least one similar.

I ended up buying an S80 from a local independent shop that had taken the car in back in January due to a failed emissions test. The basic points of the test showed this:

P0432 Main Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2)
P0456
P0422 Main Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)


The shop, who has an excellent reputation, quoted the owners a bunch of money to fix the emissions stuff, as well as timing belt, water pump, and suspension work it was due for. Seeing all the $$$$ prompted them to leave it with the mechanic and sign the title over. Not worth it. The shop had it for a while until I came along and offered them $300 for it. The shop said if they put the time into it, it would be a break-even endeavor and they didn't pursue repairing it either. Better to be working on money-making jobs. It runs really well, and in fact I drove it home from the shop. So now it sits in my driveway, ready to rejoin the world as a fully functioning car eventually.

I've done a ton of reading on these catalytic converters, and I know they can go bad due to the engine operating out of optimal air:fuel ratio, or they can simply end up wearing out and need to be replaced. The shop thought it was a simple case of a worn out catalytic converter(s) and had recommended simply replacing them. They reiterated that they thought it could be a good car again.


Questions/Observations
1. Do banks 1 and 2 refer to those catalytic converters directly attached to the exhaust manifolds? There is a third catalytic converter on the S80 that's further down the exhaust that's confusing the issue for me. I bought a couple Dorman catalytic converters that are waiting to be installed, but they are the one that go up by the manifold.

2. P0456 code - seems to commonly be related to a loose gas cap or fuel tank breather tube, but could that be a culprit in this mess?

3. The exhaust did smell like rotten eggs on the way home, maybe the first couple miles, but fine after that. I'm guessing this means either bad fuel mixture, or a straight-up bad catalytic converter. Been googling a lot on this topic, but this could be a sign that the converters are toast.

4. No other trouble codes exist. The car runs good, sounds good, drives well. Since battery had gone dead, I/M readiness is still incomplete, but would assume 'fail' due to previous fail.

Thanks for reading.
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Legofan
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:11 pm
Year and Model: 2001 S80 T6
Location: Evanston,IL

Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by Legofan »

RocketUSA wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 4:06 pm
1. Do banks 1 and 2 refer to those catalytic converters directly attached to the exhaust manifolds? There is a third catalytic converter on the S80 that's further down the exhaust that's confusing the issue for me. I bought a couple Dorman catalytic converters that are waiting to be installed, but they are the one that go up by the manifold.

2. P0456 code - seems to commonly be related to a loose gas cap or fuel tank breather tube, but could that be a culprit in this mess?

3. The exhaust did smell like rotten eggs on the way home, maybe the first couple miles, but fine after that. I'm guessing this means either bad fuel mixture, or a straight-up bad catalytic converter. Been googling a lot on this topic, but this could be a sign that the converters are toast.

4. No other trouble codes exist. The car runs good, sounds good, drives well. Since battery had gone dead, I/M readiness is still incomplete, but would assume 'fail' due to previous fail.

Thanks for reading.
P0456 is evap leak small, it can be a number of things but, most commonly the J hose on the charcoal canister. It is on top of the gas tank an you're looking at $400-1000 to fix that depending on labor rates.

Bank 1 and Bank 2 are the four 02 sensors. there are two up stream and two down stream. All four 02 sensors won't fail at the same time and I doubt both cats will fail at the same time either. Something else is happening that I really think you should have a a volvo certified tech look at with their software. You could chase this problem until all the money is gone and still not fix it.

Keep this in mind as well:

"Catalytic converters contain precious metals like platinum, palladium, rhodium among others. Basically, the cheaper the cat, the less precious metals used. It should be noted that there are some automobile makes that are very finicky when it comes to catalytic converters and the logic that the PCM uses to monitor them. Just because the parts guy says it will work doesn't mean that it will. The reason is that the engineering of the vehicle was done with a high quality catalyst in mind and it can't be replaced with a low cost catalyst. There are also different kinds of catalysts. Some makes will allow for a cheaper catalyst while others simply will not. Toyotas & Subarus are the most notorious for this. Subarus require CARB certified catalysts to keep the check engine light off and won't tolerate an aftermarket catalyst, no matter how expensive.

So basically if you have a recurrence of this code after replacing the catalyst with an aftermarket catalyst, this may be your problem. If you have this code and haven't replaced the cat, there's basically two likely causes: The catalyst is no good, or the engine is running out of optimal air:fuel ratio. A tune up or engine repair may correct it. Otherwise you'll need to replace the catalyst.>
2001 S80 T6 Moondust sent to auction for scrap
RocketUSA
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:25 pm
Year and Model: v70 2004
Location: Home

Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by RocketUSA »

Legofan wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 5:38 pm
P0456 is evap leak small, it can be a number of things but, most commonly the J hose on the charcoal canister. It is on top of the gas tank an you're looking at $400-1000 to fix that depending on labor rates.
I would tackle this myself. This is truly just a simple hose, right? Not some complicated contraption, right?
Legofan wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 5:38 pm Bank 1 and Bank 2 are the four 02 sensors. there are two up stream and two down stream. All four 02 sensors won't fail at the same time and I doubt both cats will fail at the same time either. Something else is happening that I really think you should have a a Volvo certified tech look at with their software. You could chase this problem until all the money is gone and still not fix it.
I've read further on this subject, and Bank 1 refers to the side with cylinder 1, and Bank 2 is "the other side." I get that all four won't fail simultaneously, but in this case, the O2 sensors are doing exactly what they're supposed to, tracking the change in the exhaust into and out of the cats. The emissions passing through are not doing what they're supposed to be doing. Therein lies the real mystery.
Legofan wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 5:38 pm "Catalytic converters contain precious metals like platinum, palladium, rhodium among others. Basically, the cheaper the cat, the less precious metals used....
How picky are Volvos?

Thanks Lego!
2004 V70
2002 S80
Overall car hobbyist
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Legofan
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:11 pm
Year and Model: 2001 S80 T6
Location: Evanston,IL

Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by Legofan »

RocketUSA wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 6:06 pm
Legofan wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 5:38 pm
P0456 is evap leak small, it can be a number of things but, most commonly the J hose on the charcoal canister. It is on top of the gas tank an you're looking at $400-1000 to fix that depending on labor rates.
I would tackle this myself. This is truly just a simple hose, right? Not some complicated contraption, right?
It's not easy at all, but you could try it.
2001 S80 T6 Moondust sent to auction for scrap
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Legofan
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:11 pm
Year and Model: 2001 S80 T6
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Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by Legofan »

Legofan wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 6:57 pm
RocketUSA wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 6:06 pm
Legofan wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 5:38 pm
P0456 is evap leak small, it can be a number of things but, most commonly the J hose on the charcoal canister. It is on top of the gas tank an you're looking at $400-1000 to fix that depending on labor rates.
I would tackle this myself. This is truly just a simple hose, right? Not some complicated contraption, right?
It's not easy at all, but you could try it. Just a hose and two clamps, but it's on top of the gas tank so you can't actually see it.
2001 S80 T6 Moondust sent to auction for scrap
ThommyKent
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Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by ThommyKent »

[/quote]

P0456 is evap leak small, it can be a number of things but, most commonly the J hose on the charcoal canister. It is on top of the gas tank an you're looking at $400-1000 to fix that depending on labor rates.
>
[/quote]

I fixed my J hose at home, wasn`t real fun getting hands and tools into the limited space, but if you're patient it`s ok. I didn`t remove the gas tank.
RocketUSA
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:25 pm
Year and Model: v70 2004
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Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by RocketUSA »

ThommyKent wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 7:15 am I fixed my J hose at home, wasn`t real fun getting hands and tools into the limited space, but if you're patient it`s ok. I didn`t remove the gas tank.
I found some tutorials that showed how to accomplish this without dropping the tank, but if I have to drop it, I'm comfortable doing that. Thanks for the feedback!
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Legofan
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:11 pm
Year and Model: 2001 S80 T6
Location: Evanston,IL

Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by Legofan »

RocketUSA wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 9:20 am
ThommyKent wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 7:15 am I fixed my J hose at home, wasn`t real fun getting hands and tools into the limited space, but if you're patient it`s ok. I didn`t remove the gas tank.
I found some tutorials that showed how to accomplish this without dropping the tank, but if I have to drop it, I'm comfortable doing that. Thanks for the feedback!
My shop did it for right around $300 so I had them do it. I'm not interested in that kind of work.
Last edited by Legofan on Wed May 31, 2017 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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June
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Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by June »

I don't think I would change the converters yet. If you smelled rotten egg smell than you have a extreme rich condition. Mid 70's to early 80's Fords were famous for making that smell when the carburetor needed adjustment. If the catalyst was bad (not firing up, or missing) you would smell raw gas rather than rotten eggs. Also since the bad smell went away and I assume no real detectable smell was present the converters likely were handling the rich condition. You can take the car to a real muffler shop and they will measure the converter temperature and back pressure to reliably tell if the catalyst is bad or blocked in any way. They have a gauge they will attach to a small hole they will drill before each converter to measure backpressure and a probe they will place between converter and it's sroud than run the engine at certain rpm and measure the amount of time to fire up to normal temperature. Both tests have certain criteria that must be met. I know this as I have seen it done. The cars computer has no real way of knowing anything beyond rich or lean with oxygen sensors I do believe. I think also I would let your Volvo dealer give you a estimate to make the engine light go off. I do believe there is no charge for a diagnosis of needed repair at any Volvo dealer. It is one of the Volvo guarantees I think. I would not touch anything until they tell you what needs touching and if it's in your budget (not tons of work) than do yourself a favor and let them fix it. I also would fill it up with fresh premium gas, T6 engines like premium and if that car has sat it might have stale gas in the tank. June
My Volvo cars owned
1989 740 GLT ordered
1994 850 4door standard shift ordered
1996 960 ordered
1998 S90 ordered totalled after 3 weeks
1998 V70 GT dealer stock car
2002 S80 T6 ordered totalled
2004 S80 T6 dealer stock car and current car owned
RocketUSA
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:25 pm
Year and Model: v70 2004
Location: Home

Re: Got an S80 for $300, now to solve P0432, P0422 codes

Post by RocketUSA »

Thanks for the responses. Believe me, I'm taking each thing into consideration that I'm hearing. I think I can research what the vehicle is doing in terms of rich/lean conditions by examining the fuel trim levels. I have a scan tool that allows me to record that data and look at it over time. I would love to have a Volvo dealer look at the car, especially for free, but I just realized our local dealer just dropped the Volvo brand and now the closest is 2.5 hours away. So, given that, I'll examine fuel-air mixture data and then chase down trouble based on that.
2004 V70
2002 S80
Overall car hobbyist
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