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ETM Compatibility Question

Do you have a failing Electronic Throttle Module? What steps to take if you do, plus the latest ETM news. Volvo 1999-2002 models only please.
jcb
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:38 pm
Year and Model: XC70 2001
Location: Maryland
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ETM Compatibility Question

Post by jcb » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:25 am

I own a 2001 XC with 75,000 miles that still has the original "white tag" ETM. While I am currently having no symptoms of a problem with the ETM, I am considering purchasing a used upgraded "yellow tag" unit. Haven't decided whether to just keep it in the car as an untried spare, or actually install it to prove it is OK and then keep the original as a back up - probably the latter is most likely.
I found a 2006 "yellow tag" unit on a 2001 V70 2.4T at a local "pick & pull" yard for a very low price. One thing that I want to avoid is having to take it to a dealer to reload software. So my question is, will I have to do this given the two cars involved.

Both cars have the same ETM # 8644347. They are also both turbos and have matching Bosch ECU part numbers - 0261206828. I've seen posts claiming that a software reload is not required in this case.

However, they do have different TCU numbers, presumably because the XC is AWD while the V70 is FWD. What I do not know is whether this makes a difference as to a required software download.

As such donor cars do not seem to last very long, any quick responses would be greatly appreciated - Thanks



precopster
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Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by precopster » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:39 am

Straight from the horses mouth (I actually repair these for the Australian market)

You can use a turbo programmed inline 5 cylinder ETM in your XC '01. Basically anything from a S70/V70 2000 auto turbo to a P2 series V70 T5 auto. TCM version has no influence as long as it's auto NOT manual.

There's a lot of baloney out there about programming. Most of the problem regarding compatability is you don't really know what it came from unless:

a) You saw with your own eyes which car it came from
b) They provide the VIN of the car and you have a copy of Vida so you can check the compatability yourself
c) They could give you a faulty unit from the same type of car and it doesn't work and therefore people blame the programming
d) Second hand part dealers just use the part number for matching and in their opinion that is where their obligation ends. If it needs programming it's not their problem

Hopefully you have a good relationship with this seller and can trust their accuracy. I would buy it and try it first. 2006 build will be a lot better than original one (lots of problems with older built units)


Current cars:2002 XC70, 2001 V70 T5, 2006 XC90 2.5T, VW Transporter 2.5TDI

www.precisioncarmodules.com.

jcb
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:38 pm
Year and Model: XC70 2001
Location: Maryland
United States of America

Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by jcb » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:09 am

G'day Mate !

Precopster, you are a godsend. Had I not gotten any responses, my gut was telling me to go for it anyway because the price is so good and the risk that it needed a s/w download was minimal. At this type of "pick & pull" yard, there are no guarantees. You pull it off the car, pay for it, and once you walk out the gate that's it. There's always a risk of getting a defective part, but in 25 years of doing this I have not had a significant problem. Had it not been for the low prices they offer I would never have been able to keep the family's fleet going - mostly Volvos with a BMW & Jag thrown in along the way.
Anyway, in this case at least I am certain of the car that it is on. So I'm off to the junk yard and hopefully the car is still there. If I get it, next question will be whether to install it now or wait until I see problem symptoms with my ETM. I retired from the operating department of a major steel plant, and there was always a saying in such situations - "Don't fix it if it ain't broke ! "

Thanks Again



precopster
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Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by precopster » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:48 am

You're most welcome. I too have an "01 XC but sadly it's not yet a runner.

Goodluck with the ETM.


Current cars:2002 XC70, 2001 V70 T5, 2006 XC90 2.5T, VW Transporter 2.5TDI

www.precisioncarmodules.com.

jcb
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:38 pm
Year and Model: XC70 2001
Location: Maryland
United States of America

Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by jcb » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:04 am

precopster -- just an update with a few comments that may help someone else:

The donor car was still in the yard and I was able to remove the ETM from it.

Fortunately, someone had already removed the cooling fan and the starter, giving me more room. Despite this, it still took me over an hour to get it out. Biggest stumbling block was that I couldn't remove the air intake hose from the bottom of the unit. The clamp was oriented in a position that given the tools I had with me, I couldn't get the right angle to use a screwdriver or a socket. So after fooling with it for to long, I decided to remove the unit with hose attached. This should not have been a big deal, but the extra thickness of the hose prevented me from getting my 10 mm socket cleanly onto the heads of the four long bolts. Fortunately, I had a 10 mm small box-end with me that provided enough maneuvering room to break them free, and after a few turns could then be unscrewed by hand. Having done it once, and if the car had been in my own garage, I'm sure that phase of the work would go much quicker. However, at least on a turbo, at a minimum you have to get the fan out of the way, or perhaps bite the bullet and pull the intake manifold. Only other comment is that it is no fun working on something that is upside down and you have to rely more on feel than sight.
The ETM looks pretty clean with only a little bit of gook in the bore that should be easy to clean. Throttle plate is free with no evidence of binding. After cleaning, I want to at least give it a basic operational test by plugging it into my cars system. I need to do a bit more research, but prior posts seem to indicate that it should respond to throttle pedal movement with key on/ engine off. If that tests out OK, I'll most likely wait until some problem symptoms appear with my ETM before changing it out.

Thanks again for your help !



precopster
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Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by precopster » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:16 pm

If it powers up, then turns off in around 6 seconds with ignition on that is normal. You have a 6 second window to check for throttle plate movement.

On the '01 XC I get them off in around 15 minutes as there is far more room on the P2 series. The key is to remove the air cleaner box and the large vacuum line allowing the head to get down there so you can see where you're placing the socket.

When cleaning keep solvents away from the cable entry area as it's poorly sealed. Also use a carby cleaner that evaporates quickly and use the rag method rather than spraying straight in.


Current cars:2002 XC70, 2001 V70 T5, 2006 XC90 2.5T, VW Transporter 2.5TDI

www.precisioncarmodules.com.

jcb
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:38 pm
Year and Model: XC70 2001
Location: Maryland
United States of America

Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by jcb » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:11 pm

Precopster :

Well, it's been two months since you helped me out and I finally have gotten around to testing the used ETM that I purchased back then. I am starting to see a few symptoms that may be related to my original white label ETM. Nothing serious yet, no lights coming on or dropping out of cruise control , etc. But what I am seeing is a slight hunting at idle where the RPM dips a bit then restores itself. This has been pretty intermittent but seems to be happening more frequently. Also, there have been a few times when the throttle doesn't seem to respond right away when trying to accelerate. I know these symptoms could be caused by a variety of things, but I'm getting more and more paranoid about the ETM.
So I plugged my used unit into my cars socket a few hours ago and this is what happens :

1- Turn the ignition key to on and I see the throttle plate shift to what looks like a more fully closed position.

2 - After a time delay, the throttle plate plate shifts back, I'm assuming powering off as you suggest.
My main concern here is that this time window is close to 15 seconds, so I'm hoping that the 15 minutes you mentioned was perhaps just a typo. If not, should I be concerned that the duration is shorter ?

3 - Also, I'm assuming that during the time window when it is powered up, the throttle plate will not move when the gas pedal is depressed. Is this correct ?

If I'm good to go based on the above, I'm pretty sure I will actually install this unit tomorrow and go from there. That will hopefully prove the compatibility issue that I was struggling with. I will report back on the results, even if it doesn't cure the symptoms I noted above. Unless things go backwards after installing this spare, I will clean up my original and keep it in the car as an emergency backup.

Thanks Again



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Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by precopster » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:39 pm

Someone's misquoting me here!! :) I quoted about fifteen minutes to remove an ETM in my previous post.

They turn off in around 6 seconds as I mentioned.

The throttle plate should move with depressing of the accelerator but you only have a 6 second window to check.

If you have enough loom length you should be able to arrange the ETM on top of the engine with the throttle plate facing the driver while you turn on the ignition to Pos II. During this 6 second window you should see throttle plate movement.

If the unit turns off in the 6 second window it means that the programming is compatible with your ECM. It however doesn't necessarily mean it's a great reliable ETM. Thorough road testing and lack of codes will determine this.

How old is the MAF in your car? At around 10 years or 100,000 miles most of them are out of tolerance.

Also a blocked PCV will result in inaccurate MAF readings which results in poor pedal feel.


Current cars:2002 XC70, 2001 V70 T5, 2006 XC90 2.5T, VW Transporter 2.5TDI

www.precisioncarmodules.com.

jcb
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:38 pm
Year and Model: XC70 2001
Location: Maryland
United States of America

Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by jcb » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:58 pm

Sorry, it was lack of understanding on my part about the 15 minutes. I thought that this meant a longer duration than the 6 seconds power up, and "having more room" referred to a time window, not the space needed to access the connector and make the check. So, I just rechecked my spare, and it closes solid on power up, stays that way for 12-14 seconds, then goes back to its original position. During the power-on phase, pressing the accelerator pedal causes no late movement as far as I can tell when sitting in the car. I'll check that tomorrow with a helper, but I would think that I could easily see this myself from the drivers seat because I have the unit clearly visible (as you suggest) and the plate backlit with a strong light. I'm assuming the throttle plate moves significantly when the pedal is depressed ? So it seems my spare may well be defective. Is there some way to supply power to it when off the car to see if the plate will respond ?

I realize that there are other things that may be causing my symptoms and I will address them separately. (In fact I have a brand new MAF that can be used to do this.) Problem is my present concern is to determine whether this is a viable ETM spare or not, even if it isn't causing my symptoms. Any further advice on how to troubleshoot the spare would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the prompt response



jcb
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:38 pm
Year and Model: XC70 2001
Location: Maryland
United States of America

Re: ETM Compatibility Question

Post by jcb » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:43 pm

Just another thought that may not have any applicability here:

I am currently struggling with a running problem with my son's Saab 900S. It appears that the problem is with the CPS (crankshaft position sensor). The point here is that unless a signal is received from the ignition system when the engine is cranking or running, the car's ECU will not allow other things to happen such as run the fuel pump or open the ejectors. A lot of this has to do with safety.
So my thought - is it possible that at least on some models Volvo's will not allow the throttle plate to open unless you are cranking or running ? If so, this might explain why I'm not seeing throttle plate movement (within the power-on time window) with only the ignition on, and the engine not cranking or running .
Sorry if I'm way off base - just a thought.



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