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200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

How to go faster, stop quicker, and turn harder. Chips, exhaust, larger turbos, bigger/slotted/drilled rotors, high performance brake pads, manual boost controllers, performance shocks/struts/springs, airbox mods and more! Also discussion on HID and Xenon lights, aftermarket foglights and other exterior lighting.
Sommerfeldt
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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by Sommerfeldt » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:15 pm

So, is it just me, or...



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June
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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by June » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:27 pm

Yarddogperformance wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:38 am
:roll: ok this might be a bs thread.
When i got my v70 xc it ran about 5psi
Put a manual boost control (by pass style)
To no avail
I worked on the bov, found that the spring was week, so i made it adjustable.
Still 5 psi
So i did the old jamacan wastegate preload.
10 psi. Ok now what right?
Tire fryer
So becouse i like the car i cut it back
9 psi, great power (i thought) until i lost to a 200k civic
And on the 2-3 it struggled to upshift, (either lack of fuel or trans issue.

So i backed it down to 8 psi
2-3 doesnt struggle, and power is better than before, but why the issues on the 2-3 shift?

I believe it need more fuel, so what im thinking is a gtx 3076 r, at about 8 psi, but am i going to run into the laggy shift again? Thistime becouse of valume and not pressure?

Please no bs keyboard mechanic crap. If your rolling a stock volvo and cant change your oil please dont say anything leave it for someone who knows please
This post has had me curious as to what boost is normal. I think my 740 and I know my 850 both had a turbo gauge. I dont recall numbers indicating say ie 1 to 50 psi. Recently I bought a wifi reader to view on my phone what the actual temperature is doing and discovered the computer monitors all sorts of things. One being vacuum/ boost via the MAP Sensor. So I took several screenshots of boost or vacuum with speed, throttle, cooling temperature, and rpm. This is a 2004 Volvo S80 T6 completely stock in perfect running order. Notice at times it is producing over 30psi of boost. Some initial spikes to 50psi occur momentarily than instantly back down to a lower psi. From idle, turbos not spooled around 15psi is instant, than rises to mid 20's, than backs off between 4000 to 6000 rpm. Under 10 psi during full acceleration when the tach hits redline, gear change than back to the 20's to repeat the process as each gear is changed on wot full acceleration. Of course 1st gear ends quickly. My car has no bent rods, and I have run it hard for 175K thus far. I really would like you to share more of your project and findings. June
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My Volvo cars owned
1989 740 GLT ordered
1994 850 4door standard shift ordered
1996 960 ordered
1998 S90 ordered totalled after 3 weeks
1998 V70 GT dealer stock car
2002 S80 T6 ordered totalled
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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by 93Regina » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:51 pm

June wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:27 pm
what boost is normal.
At normal atmospheric pressure, a naturally aspirated engine has 14.7 psi of "boost" at sea level. Most boost gauges are zero'ed at 14.7psi. I'm not a turbo person, but seeing high boost numbers like 20-30+ psi would require a well built engine running alcohol.

"There's a wide variation, but back in the '90's it was clustered in the 10-12psi range for a typical 4-cyl turbocharged performance model. Nowadays 16-18psi is not abnormal for high performance factory cars. Of course, you'll find some economy cars in the 5-6psi range, where they're using boost to let a little tiny fuel-efficient engine not be completely miserable to drive. :-)"

See: Turbo tech: How much boost is too much boost?

The zero number represents 14.7psi.....the higher numbers represents psi, and lower than zero numbers, intake's vacuum amount. This would be a gauge that a high performance vehicle might have, but few engines could handle high boosts. In a semi-truck, seeing 30psi boost would be rare, and would require very cold air.

Image



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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by 93Regina » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:00 pm

June wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:27 pm
2004 Volvo S80 T6 completely stock...producing over 30psi of boost.
If a true 30psi boost, your turbo has an issue that needs to be addressed (aka fixed). From this cite, 8psi is stock.

S80 2.9 T6 1999-2006

HP(Stock/ipd): 268/310
Boost PSI(Stock/ipd): 8/14



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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by precopster » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:02 pm

Just a side note to the OP: If you're running a 2000 model XC which naturally came with the 4 speed auto, did you swap over to the 5 speed auto from the R of the same year (which means you would need the R TCM and loom as well)?

Looking at the 2-3 shift problem had me wondering how to answer your question about the shift issue because it all depends on which auto box you have.

BTW interesting thread. I have a 2001 T5 with auto box and a shoehorned B5244T3 (I still retain the large turbo and T5 ECM) and it runs fine but I wonder of the engine can handle your mod idea given the smaller spacing between cylinders)


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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by Sommerfeldt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:48 pm

June;
Like 93Regina says, 14.7 psi is "0". I.e. that's atmospheric pressure, the pressure we breath in normally. What your numbers seem to indicate is that either the ECU or the gauge isn't factoring in that 14.7 psi of atmospheric pressure, and simply adding it onto the numbers instead. Possibly in combination with some other issue, since even when subtracting atmospheric, your numbers seem too high.

You can't have 30+ psi of boost (i.e. pressure added to atmospheric) in a stock engine without spewing parts every which way. And I do believe it would happen pretty much instantly if you WOT it and smack 30 psi in there.

The 850's factory boost gauge does not have numbers, that's correct. Only a white line and a red indicator.

- S


'96 855 T5, R bumper and spoiler, Koni Yellows & blue H&R springs all 'round.

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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by Yarddogperformance » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:52 am

I thought i would touch base on this
Ive put 15k on my current set up, of 10 psi, no tune, no shift issues.
I have found a vacume line placement that is incorrect from factory and have moved it, some of you may be shocked to find that moving this line raised my mpg by 3mpg, and has shaved a full sec. Off of my 0-60 mph.

The factory bov only holds 5 psi and begins to open this is bad
The waste gate tension is only 4 psi
This is also bad, 3000rpm has enough pressure to push this open
Boost source is charge tube referanced, this is not for performance.

So for a free few horsepowers, move the boost source to the intake manifold not the carge tube, the pcm can handle this and it lowers emissions due to not having a rich burn under boost, well not as rich.

I also adjusted pretension on the waste gate arm to 6 psi, witch has enough pressure to stay closed in low boost high valume situations. The most improvement came from the bov. Either a block off plate or aftermarket spring is recomended, it shouldnt open under normal boost, i used the original boost source for the boost solinoid and plumbed it to the bov holding it shut. This makes a nice loud turbo btw.

No issues lights or rattles. So have a good day, use this info if you like, if it shifts funny your boost is too high for your fuel quality



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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by Sommerfeldt » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:31 pm

Yarddogperformance wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:52 am
I thought i would touch base on this
Ive put 15k on my current set up, of 10 psi, no tune, no shift issues.
I have found a vacume line placement that is incorrect from factory and have moved it, some of you may be shocked to find that moving this line raised my mpg by 3mpg, and has shaved a full sec. Off of my 0-60 mph.

The factory bov only holds 5 psi and begins to open this is bad
The waste gate tension is only 4 psi
This is also bad, 3000rpm has enough pressure to push this open
Boost source is charge tube referanced, this is not for performance.

So for a free few horsepowers, move the boost source to the intake manifold not the carge tube, the pcm can handle this and it lowers emissions due to not having a rich burn under boost, well not as rich.

I also adjusted pretension on the waste gate arm to 6 psi, witch has enough pressure to stay closed in low boost high valume situations. The most improvement came from the bov. Either a block off plate or aftermarket spring is recomended, it shouldnt open under normal boost, i used the original boost source for the boost solinoid and plumbed it to the bov holding it shut. This makes a nice loud turbo btw.

No issues lights or rattles. So have a good day, use this info if you like, if it shifts funny your boost is too high for your fuel quality
Again, I may be daft, but this still makes no sense to me. First off, you said you were putting way more than 10 psi into your engine. Of course the engine can handle 10 psi - there are stock tunes running far more than that. I still don't see that you've explained what you did with that vacuum hose, and where you've moved it from/to.

The car doesn't have a BOV from factory. It uses a recirculation system, since incoming air is metered, and blowing it off (as in blow off valve) would create rich conditions and hurt your mpg and performance - certainly not improving any of them.

Waste gate is ECU controlled, and the setting doesn't mean that the wastegate will open at that setting. It's the ECU reference point. The ECU has TCV duty maps and cycles which are software controlled, which is also why modifying the wastegate actuation physically will not increase boost, but move the boost curve (dangerously in the case of later models).

So in essence, you've "physically" tuned your engine without telling the ECU what you want to do, and as far as I can tell, it seems you've set the stage for some super dangerous possibilities for the engine. Mainly bent rods, overboost, knocking and catastrophic failure.

These aren't dumb chunks of 60's carb'ed V8s - it takes more than tinkering with the jets to make them run right. I mean, even one of those carb'ed V8s would blow up if you chucked 30 psi into it without warning...

- S


'96 855 T5, R bumper and spoiler, Koni Yellows & blue H&R springs all 'round.

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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by ndphotonl » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:09 pm

This, it's not recommended to change settings like the wastegate opening without changing the mapping as Sommerfeldt is saying. I do recommend servicing the factory CBV for an uprated one, the stock units bleeds some boost as it doesn't close off completely (the "piston" closes with a plastic ring instead of rubber).

Another tip I can give with experience: check if the wastegate tension is still up to par. Mine was old and didnt open at the factory spec (0.3 bar), but opened before that. In other words, boost was bleeding way too fast. After replacing the wastegate with a new wastegate (which opened on 0.3 bar again), my issues were solved.

Difference between the ProPerfekt piston style dv and an OEM CBV

ImageVolvo S80 2.4T ProPerfekt Diverter Valve by Andy Ramdin, on Flickr

ImageVolvo S80 2.4T ProPerfekt Diverter Valve by Andy Ramdin, on Flickr

And the Mamba wastegate I bought as a replacement (for my 13T turbo)

ImageVolvo S80 2.4T New Mambatek Turbo Wastegate Actuator by Andy Ramdin, on Flickr

ImageVolvo S80 2.4T New Mambatek Turbo Wastegate Actuator by Andy Ramdin, on Flickr


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Re: 200 V70 Boost and v.e. 2-3 Shift issue?

Post by Yarddogperformance » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:41 pm

Thats a lot of mo ey for no gain. And for no reason, again i am astounded at the lack of knowladge i encounter here
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