What is a reasonable "life" for a 2001 S60?

BobbyC · Post by **BobbyC** » 04 Jun 2011, 12:22

Just curious.

The '01 S60 T5 I bought from my nephew last year w/ 104k is my 7th Volvo, and despite a LOT of new components (all front suspension (arms/bushings), including inner and outer tie rods, axles, hub bearings, struts, strut bushings) the car has more noises over rough roads than my 400k mile '89 740. It also ate its first tranny at 72k, and now sometimes drops into 1st coming to a stop with a "clunk," and at 106k (34k on the independently rebuilt trans) occasionally flares into 3rd or 4th (rpm spikes 200rpm higher than the lower gear disengagement before engaging the next higher gear). Not very confidence inspiring.

Don't get me wrong, with a new free ETM (thank-you Volvo) this week, it runs great and handles well, but I just don't have the sense it will hold up like my RWD Volvos did, including my beloved '96 965 (that I never should have sold).

What would be a reasonable, useful life for a well cared-for '01 S60 before serious engine work, or another transmission is needed? BTW, I live in TX, so corrosion related problems are not a factor.

I tend to keep cars until a pending repair or replacement would put the "investment" above the reasonable market value of the car. These days, even a HVAC climate-control problem can exceed the street value of a car, so I am curious if these expensive little systems are reliable in this model and year (I am always reluctant to buy the first year of a new model, but this one fell into my lap priced reasonably at $3k).

I am trying to get a rough idea (based upon the experience base here) before I fall in love with the car. My alternative would be to try to find a super clean late model 745 or 945 with under 200k on the clock if I decide to get out of the S60 since I am old enough now that I value reliability, ease/cost of DIY fix-ability over performance.

Bob

porschewidebody · Post by **porschewidebody** » 11 Jun 2011, 00:43

What free ETM did you get?

Post by **JRL** » 11 Jun 2011, 06:11

Sounds as if the stop neutral software was not removed
Did this tranny just get bolted in (used) and by whom?

New upgraded software is needed, new fluid with the S/N feature REMOVED NOW, all adaptions reset and a new drive cycle done

BobbyC · Post by **BobbyC** » 11 Jun 2011, 07:13

porschewidebody wrote:What free ETM did you get?

The 2001 S60 is eligible for a new ETM up to 10yr/200k mi if it is found to be defective.

BobbyC · Post by **BobbyC** » 11 Jun 2011, 07:35

JRL wrote:Sounds as if the stop neutral software was not removed
Did this tranny just get bolted in (used) and by whom?

New upgraded software is needed, new fluid with the S/N feature REMOVED NOW, all adaptions reset and a new drive cycle done

The transmission was rebuilt about 20k miles ago by an independent shop here in Dallas. It was a rebuild, and not an exchange as far as I know.

I did not drive the car until a year ago (it belonged to my nephew) to know if it's been doing this since rebuild, but since I have had it it appears when you have either exceeded a certain speed, or had T/C lockup, when slowing to a stop, at perhaps 2-3mph you feel a "clunk" as if it is shifting down way hard into first gear.

I have also felt that kind of "clunk" in other cars when a T/C does not unlock when it should and suddenly does at near idle speed, but in this case, I do not think that's happening because the rpm on this car does fall to idle when slowing (making me think the T/C is unlocked) and the rpm does not decay with speed (i.e., the rpm does not follow the speed down as the T/C were locked up) as it would if the T/C were not unlocking.

I have carefully watched the tach, and when the transmission "clunks" the rpm bumps by maybe 50 or 100rpm. It does not decay below idle and bump up with the clunk as it would if something were unlocking, but rather bumps DOWN with the clunk.

To summarize, when letting off the throttle and coasting to a stop, the rpm decays to near idle speed, and as one is nearly stopped (maybe 3mph), the rpm suddenly increases maybe 100rpm, then with the "clunk" drops down to idle speed.

It does not do this EVERY stop, but does it almost every stop if the car had reached 25-40mph since the LAST stop. I have not noticed it in stop/go traffic if one has not gotten up to speed, or shifted above a certain gear.

I was not sure if this is a HARDWARE problem, or a SOFTWARE problem, but was leaning toward hardware. You are thinking it may be a software problem that could be remedied by a fix? I am not at all familiar w/ the "Stop/Neutral" software. Perhaps you could give me more info so I can pursue a fix by sounding intelligent when I go back to the shop that rebuilt the transmission? It has a 3yr/36,000 warranty, and has 4 months before the time portion runs out, and I'd really like to have them fix it under warranty.

I was frankly hoping that the transmission problems would go away when the new ETM was installed (last week), because with the old ETM the throttle was doing it's own thing (varying up and down by itself) so much it was causing the transmission to hunt gears way more than it should. The "hunting" has now disappeared, but the conditions I mentioned are still, unfortunately present.

The "flared shift" I mention happens pretty rarely, though some upshifts are far less smooth than others. I drive very conservatively, so NONE of the upshifts are done under much throttle, and generally the upshifts are coming at 2000-2200 rpm under very light throttle.

I would greatly appreciate any insight you can pass along that will help me get this fixed!

Trying to approach a shop without adequate information and technical insight can be a frustrating situation, especially when a shop would probably prefer not to do the work under warranty.

Bob

Post by **EstVolvo** » 12 Jun 2011, 10:11

Have you fixed the ABS module? The transmission gets a signal from it.
Mine had RPM flares when engaging the cruise control and it was doing funky things when coming to a stop - all caused by a bad ABS module.
I had a 1987 Volvo 340 and it ran forever with just regular oil changes and brake pad replacements. My 2000 V70 is junk. The management attitude at the Volvo Car Corporation changed. If I remember correctly, the useful life expectancy according to the letter exchange inside the management was 100K miles.

Post by **JRL** » 12 Jun 2011, 10:17

Trip to the dealer for:

Full flush
SOFTWARE DOWNLOAD to get rid of the stop neutral
Clear and reset all the adaptions
and do the new drive cycle

Installing a new rebuilt tranny without doing all of the above is fruitless

BobbyC · Post by **BobbyC** » 12 Jun 2011, 11:21

I didn't mean to be dense by asking the additional questions, but I was more asking so that I would be educated enough that the transmission shop would respond to my concerns, but I now understand you are saying to NOT use the transmission shop warranty, but to go straight to the DEALER and have them do the work.

I did a search and found these threads that explain quite well what the Stop-Neutral function is and why to get rid of it.
I should have done this after you first mentioned the term, and I apologize for not having done so.
GOOGLE is a GREAT thing!

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 235AAhDhXR
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showpost. ... ostcount=9

Thanks again,
Bob

Post by **JRL** » 12 Jun 2011, 11:48

BobbyC wrote:I didn't mean to be dense by asking the additional questions, but I was more asking so that I would be educated enough that the transmission shop would respond to my concerns, but I now understand you are saying to NOT use the transmission shop warranty, but to go straight to the DEALER and have them do the work.

Bob

Tranny shop is not equipped
They cannot install Volvo software
If it doesn't help, THEN go back to the tranny shop

BobbyC · Post by **BobbyC** » 12 Jun 2011, 12:27

Update:

1) BTW, after doing a LOT of reading (maybe 20 threads) on the issue based on my Google Search, it was said that if you FEEL the transmission engage 1st gear when shifting into "D" w/ the foot brake engaged, or the car creeps immediately (w/o delay) when the brake is released, the Stop/Neutral feature has ALREADY been removed.

2) I just went out and started my car, and even with the brake engaged, I can feel the transmission engage (feeling of engagement like a "normal" auto trans, with slight settling of the suspension) when engaging "D" or "R", and immediately w/ no delay upon letting off the brake, the car starts rolling forward (or reverse depending on which gear is selected) before throttle is applied. If sitting w/ brake off in gear, the car does creep forward.

3) Also, when I had the car into the dealership last week for the ETM replacement, they said my car's software was "up to date," though I didn't ask specifically about the transmission, and I don't know if they meant including the TCM software. They also said I had no codes showing (like for ABS or anything else) except fro an ETM code before replacement.

I DO have the "clunk" as the car rolls to a stop, and I DO have a "clunk" if I add throttle before the car has come to a completely full stop, and I DO have a 2/3 shift flare, so don't quite know what to make of the contradiction of having both 1) above AND 3) above, and whether the car has already had the S/N software revised or not.

BTW, I also saw mention of a "free-wheeling" feature that allows the rpm to return to idle when slowing rather than simply declining moderately as with other transmissions. Mine DOES drop to idle range when off the throttle. Is this another failed "feature" that is removed if the latest software is installed?

Based on 2) above (maybe meaning the Stop/Neutral has already been removed), is your advice the same (Flush/Software and Adaptions/New Drive Cycle)*?

Thanks again, and sorry for being repetitive, but I just want to get it right-
Bob

*Just found this at: http://www.myvolvolibrary.info/Tech_fil ... W55-50.pdf
And it seems to apply. Sounds like even if my TCM HAS been updated at some point, it should STILL
have the current adaptations cleared, so maybe it's possible even if I HAVE the S/N deactivated, it
was done BEFORE the trans rebuild (which included a new T/C and valve body), so I suspect that your
advice is still valid regardless whether the S/N is present. This would explain the "clunks" as
mentioned below by the Volvo bulletin.

As with almost all newer transmissions, the AW55-50 relies on adaptive strategy to adjust the
shift feel for each shift. Whenever the transmission is overhauled or replaced, the valve body is
replaced or the transmission control module (TCM) is replaced, the shift adapts must be
cleared and relearned. Failure to perform these procedures can result in shift feel and
downshift clunk complaints, as well as reduced transmission life. Some vehicles relearn slowly
and need to be relearned with a dealer equivalent scan tool. You don’t want to damage your
fresh overhaul waiting for the computer to relearn its adapts.

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