Loose front end... 2002 V70 XC. 215,000 miles.

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's stylish, distinctive P2 platform cars sold as model years 2001-2007 (North American market year designations).

2001 - 2007 V70
2001 - 2004 V70 XC (Cross Country)
2004 - 2007 XC70 (Cross Country)
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vtl
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Re: Loose front end... 2002 V70 XC. 215,000 miles.

Post by vtl »

Tonyx wrote:vtl,
Are you saying the front subframe inserts increase vibration to cabin? Can you clarify?
Yes, they do. I had them in a sold now V70, had for about two weeks until pulled them out because of intolerable vibration. Never installed another set I bought for XC70. In fact, it put me in complete opposition to everything made with polyurethane.
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Post by Tonyx »

The inserts improve lateral stiffness of the subframe to body joint. I suppose you would also say the improvement in handling is not worth the added vibration? I'm just curious on the trade off.
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Post by vtl »

I didn't feel any handling improvement on a V70 with all new suspension and steering. It also had all 5 new engine mounts, so vibration increase was from nothing to "WTF?!".

XC70 recently got some drastic handling improvement: besides all new suspension and steering, I put front sway bar from XC90 and rear from V70R. Suspension is a bit too stiff now, but how it handles! I can chase any BMW or Audi with no gut feeling that I'll die in the next turn. And no extra vibration transferred, because Volvo uses rubber bushings on sway bars.

Also while replacing the front sway bar I inspected subframe bushings, they were in a great shape. This is expected, with no harsh climate anywhere in US rubber stays intact for a long time.
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Post by oragex »

I've also read that increases vibrations. same with the inserts in the control arm which are quite popular in Europe. after all the rubber bushings in the subframe are specifically designed to absorb engine vibrations. if you remove the bushing bolt from the subframe you will notice whether the subframe bushing its cracked or not. no need to lower the subframe. I'm not sure if the inserts improve the lateral handing because they only fill the gap in the front and in the rear of the existent bushing.

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Post by MadeInJapan »

I did not notice more vibrations from the inserts. Btw, FCPEuro sells them for less than IPD. It was just a thought... My bushings were a little loose (though not deteriorated at 170K miles)...it helped the entire front end feel more solid!
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Post by appleguru »

Second shop now saying it's the rack (and doesn't want to do the work).

Have an appointment with the dealer tomorrow to verify and get a quote... maybe time for a new car :-(

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Post by appleguru »

Dealer took a look.

Quoted about $3600 for the work (!).

1) Replace steering rack and various related parts/hoses, etc. 8hrs labor quoted. $2865 total; ~$1600 parts, ~$1265 labor (including alignment)
2) Replace sway bar links @ $80 parts + 1hr labor each, $375 total
3) $230 + 1 hr labor for power steering reservoir and lines (which is leaking)

And they also recommend I do the timing belt now (last one was at 107k), at ~$800

It's been a good run, but this is the end of the road for this car I think :-(

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Post by vtl »

1. A bit too high, it took me 7 hours to drop the subframe for sway bar replacement. Without a lift. This is almost as much job as replacing a steering rack.
2. That's BS, it's a 10 minutes job for amateur.
3. BS too, subframe will be lowered for 1, lanes disconnected.

Who is the dealer?

Get a rebuilt, warranted rack, high pressure lane, reservoir, end links and find a good indie.

Forget about paying for alignment, buy Trackace.
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Post by appleguru »

vtl wrote:1. A bit too high, it took me 7 hours to drop the subframe for sway bar replacement. Without a lift. This is almost as much job as replacing a steering rack.
2. That's BS, it's a 10 minutes job for amateur.
3. BS too, subframe will be lowered for 1, lanes disconnected.

Who is the dealer?

Get a rebuilt, warranted rack, high pressure lane, reservoir, end links and find a good indie.

Forget about paying for alignment, buy Trackace.
This dealer is Boston Volvo Village. They're pretty good, but yeah, definitely not a bargain.

Two indie shops have already said they won't do the work. A 3rd, used to be my regular and worked on the car for a while, said they could do it but didn't really want to, and gave me a quote of about $1500 for parts and labor. They did say there was a service bulletin that dictates that some parts in addition to the rack itself be replaced any time a rack is done.

My car does *not* have the speed sensitive steering according to the dealer.

Some options for parts:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... -aae-3595n
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... e-aae-3595
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... 0-36002360

Looks like a genuine volvo remanufactured rack costs $981 @ FCP Euro
3rd party remanufactured @ $227
And 3rd party new @ $316

Problem really is that I don't have a local shop that seems interested in doing the work. Any recommendations in the Boston area?

RE not paying for an alignment, I've actually not yet found a shop that do front end work without it... They usually say "I have to do 90% of the work threading stuff close anyways, so doesn't make sense to not actually finish it". Which sucks, because a local tire shop still owes me an alignment!

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Post by vtl »

appleguru wrote:This dealer is Boston Volvo Village. They're pretty good, but yeah, definitely not a bargain.
Oh yes, I love those guys. They were a reason why I started to turn my own wrenches 6 years ago after they charged me $600 for $170 part and 30 minutes of work.
appleguru wrote:Two indie shops have already said they won't do the work. A 3rd, used to be my regular and worked on the car for a while, said they could do it but didn't really want to, and gave me a quote of about $1500 for parts and labor. They did say there was a service bulletin that dictates that some parts in addition to the rack itself be replaced any time a rack is done.
What parts? Subframe bolts?
appleguru wrote:Looks like a genuine volvo remanufactured rack costs $981 @ FCP Euro
Don't they offer a discount as well? I'd stick with OE reman, it's too much labor to cheap out on parts.
appleguru wrote:Problem really is that I don't have a local shop that seems interested in doing the work. Any recommendations in the Boston area?
I didn't have any perfect car shop experience in US. People are lazy and not really interested in customer satisfaction. Not proud of their work. Every single shop did something wrong. Maybe it's a Boston thing :)

You can try to negotiate labor with your dealer. Charging hours for end links and high pressure lane replacement while they are already half way removed is a lie and disrespect to customer. I know the owner of dealership in Southborough, he works hard to keep it perfect, but still you have to battle with lazy mechanics. At least try to beat the labor prices.
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