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2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location Topic is solved

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soulvoid21
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soulvoid21

Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by soulvoid21 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:21 am

mrbrian200 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:36 pm
Looking at the plugs is a good start. I seem to recall experiencing some similar though not quite as severe symptoms on mine a year ago, and went down the same path (initially suspected a failed pressure damper but then determined there isn't one).

In my case with new plugs ran it ran slightly better but noticeably rough/uneven idle quality persisted. Couldn't trace to a specific cylinder I bought two new coils and switched them out with the originals 2 at a time to no avail.

Problem ended up being a combination of ring terminal grounds (grounds the coil packs primaries - the terminal wire crimps are prone to oil contamination if you have a leaky oil filler cap seal) and a couple wonky injectors that I suspect was due to contamination from POs neglecting to change the fuel filter. At 85k it was still had original filter, which should have been changed at least once by that mileage. Or from mostly sitting for about a year before I bought it. I have read somewhere Bosch gen 3s don't like that. One of the reconditioned injectors I got hold of was leaky and caused hard starting/long crank time/black puff of smoke at startup. The injectors I got were sold/listed for a GM 8cyl (same injectors) so with 3 spares in the box the leaker was off/replaced within a couple hours, and because it was switched quick for no additional $ I practically forgot about that.

Should you end up venturing down the reconditioned injector path there's a bit of roulette inherent to used injectors. I highly recommend acquiring more than you actually need. More often a set of 6 or 8 listed for some other make/model will be the same price or less than 5 listed specifically for your Volvo...because it seems the second you 'say' you own a Volvo the price goes up :D :shock: but mostly :x So long as the Bosch PN matches you're good. Bosch gen 3 injectors are a common upgrade on many older cars for people looking for better WOT performance and/or a finer atomized spray pattern/ improved fuel economy and emissions on vehicles originally equipped with Bosch gen 2's. I didn't beat up the seller over it for $70 or $80 I ended up with 5 perfectly good ones on the car + 2 spares out of 8 and was still happy.
Good to know. As for the age of my fuel filter, I do not know. I did crawl under and look at it some time ago, and it didn't seem like it had too much age. But that could just be because the car was kept super clean. It was owned by a retired service tech of the dealer I bought it from and maintained there from new, they even had few records to prove. So IF they followed the correct service schedule, I'd assume it was done. It didn't sit either as far as I know. 118k miles on it right now and I have put very close to 20k miles on it since I purchased it.

My oil cap is a little leaky, I had the same problem when I had my 850 and it would fill all of the plug galleys between oil changes :lol: . This one gets a very very small amount of oil in it from the cap, so I'll pop the cover off tonight and take a look at the coils. Oddly enough, after getting home yesterday from a work and driving about an hour, mostly highway, I pulled the oil cap to see what it looked like in there. I did get a small amount of smoke for about 15 seconds, then it was fine. Pulled the dip stick and the same thing. Just a tiny puff. I know this can point to PCV which could cause starting issues, but I would think after being very warm and highway driven, a small amount is normal. I did idle for about 2 mins in my driveway too, and none of the hoses are hard, they're all like new, the ones I could reach anyway.

As for injectors, I would probably just go new with the Bosch on FCP. $50 each isn't too bad if I have to get them, just don't want to waste the money if I don't. I don't want to mess with refurb and have more issues. If it wasn't my daily and I didn't travel 300 miles a week, I would go with refurb. I simply drive too much and need reliability.

Thanks again!
Sage
'07 S60 2.5T AWD - 125k - Stock, daily
'94 854 body - '97 850 turbo engine (looking for engine code, the plate is too dirty) - 5 speed swap - basic bolt-on's and ARD Orange tune

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mrbrian200
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Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by mrbrian200 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:38 pm

Because it doesn't really cost anything, and considering the history (PO owned/maintained by a dealer service tech) I would probably address the ring terminals first just to rule that out, and also the engine to chassis grounds.

You'll need Oatey No. 95 lead free tinning flux and a silver bearing lead free solder--I use Oatey 29025. Benzomatic SRC300 would also be suitable and a soldering iron no less than 40W or a small torch.
Apply flux to the terminal crimp. Heat with iron or torch. As the flux bubbles and froths you'll see it pulling dark gunk and junk out of the wire/crimp. Wipe down and repeat as necessary until no more crud comes out when the flux bubbles, then finish with solder. Also note oil can work past the weather pack seals on the CP connectors. The terminals can with care be released from the connectors and this same method applies, though you want to be careful to orient the terminals 'up' to keep solder off the terminal contacts while doing this otherwise they wont slide back onto the Coil packs, as well as you want to 'flick' extra solder off the crimps before it cools/solidifies otherwise the extra solder can make it too 'fat' to fit back through the connector.
Also note rough idle symptoms can be aggravated by poor engine to chassis grounds (check/replace your ground strap between the manifold to the RH strut tower well as the large primary ground wire (up front/underneath between the block to chassis). If your starter seems to crank a little slow or during a long crank seems to speed up after the first half second or so you need to address the engine to chassis grounds and possibly the main battery power/grounds that run between the battery in the trunk to the engine bay. I did it all on my car and it idles/starts/runs just beautiful now like a brand new car. In many cases these issues can be repaired without snorting out and replacing the engine harness/heavy battery cables.

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soulvoid21
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soulvoid21

Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by soulvoid21 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:37 pm

mrbrian200 wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:38 pm
Because it doesn't really cost anything, and considering the history (PO owned/maintained by a dealer service tech) I would probably address the ring terminals first just to rule that out, and also the engine to chassis grounds.

You'll need Oatey No. 95 lead free tinning flux and a silver bearing lead free solder--I use Oatey 29025. Benzomatic SRC300 would also be suitable and a soldering iron no less than 40W or a small torch.
Apply flux to the terminal crimp. Heat with iron or torch. As the flux bubbles and froths you'll see it pulling dark gunk and junk out of the wire/crimp. Wipe down and repeat as necessary until no more crud comes out when the flux bubbles, then finish with solder. Also note oil can work past the weather pack seals on the CP connectors. The terminals can with care be released from the connectors and this same method applies, though you want to be careful to orient the terminals 'up' to keep solder off the terminal contacts while doing this otherwise they wont slide back onto the Coil packs, as well as you want to 'flick' extra solder off the crimps before it cools/solidifies otherwise the extra solder can make it too 'fat' to fit back through the connector.
Also note rough idle symptoms can be aggravated by poor engine to chassis grounds (check/replace your ground strap between the manifold to the RH strut tower well as the large primary ground wire (up front/underneath between the block to chassis). If your starter seems to crank a little slow or during a long crank seems to speed up after the first half second or so you need to address the engine to chassis grounds and possibly the main battery power/grounds that run between the battery in the trunk to the engine bay. I did it all on my car and it idles/starts/runs just beautiful now like a brand new car. In many cases these issues can be repaired without snorting out and replacing the engine harness/heavy battery cables.
I'll be sure to the take a look at the grounds. I checked them when I first bought it, but might have overlooked it. There's no issue with slow cranks, always has plenty of power to the starter. I just bought a new battery, factory style Interstate, no change in starting condition though. It died on me one winter morning, and it had quite a bit of age anyway. I have checked voltage during starts a few times, and it never drops below 9V, even on the coldest mornings.

Strange thing that I've seen mentioned in other threads, when I first get in the car, without the key in the ignition, the tach jumps around from time to time.

As for the terminals, I'm actually an electrical engineer, so I'll be sure to check each one and make any necessary repairs, and report back. Weather in my area is going to be pretty rainy and crappy this weekend and following week, so I'm not sure I'll be able to get to it until next weekend.

Go figure though, since making this post, I've had zero issues starting every day >.> That's how it always goes lol.

Thanks again!
Sage
'07 S60 2.5T AWD - 125k - Stock, daily
'94 854 body - '97 850 turbo engine (looking for engine code, the plate is too dirty) - 5 speed swap - basic bolt-on's and ARD Orange tune

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mrbrian200

Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by mrbrian200 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:39 pm

It wasn't consistent from day to day on mine either. Some days it would run smooth or it could vary between a little to moderately rough. In addition to power/ground issues I also initially had a bad electronic throttle assembly where the ECU was only indicating codes for resultant rich/lean conditions (but not the failed ETA at the heart of it). I was pulling my hair out for a short while. For some reason mine (MY06) had a lot of issues with galvanic corrosion between copper (alloy?) wires and plug terminals at the crimp. I ended up going over/soldering everything considered power/ground distribution (bumper to bumper) and also critical powertrain management. It's been an excellent trustworthy car ever since.

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soulvoid21

Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by soulvoid21 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:29 pm

So I haven't had time to look at the plugs/coils yet, it's been crappy weather and I just picked it up from getting some ProPartsSweden quick struts installed. It drives worlds better so far, but needs an alignment bad, getting that in the morning. While looking for the plate with all of the cars info (VIN, etc), I noticed my belt was orange. I always noticed it a little, but couldn't see where it was coming from. Take a look at the pictures of my alternator, lol. I would assume the bearing is bad, and could be causing my hard starts?

I checked the braided ground and it's a little dirty, but not horrible. I'll probably replace it to be safe, possibly with a large gauge, high temp wire that won't get dirty again.

Let me know what you think. Nothing else has the rust on it, just the alt.

'07 S60 2.5T AWD - 125k - Stock, daily
'94 854 body - '97 850 turbo engine (looking for engine code, the plate is too dirty) - 5 speed swap - basic bolt-on's and ARD Orange tune

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soulvoid21
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Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by soulvoid21 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:56 am

So after reading around a bit, seems that the red dust I'm seeing is probably from my A/C compressor. The clutch squeaks when it's engaged, and makes a slight rattling sound. I'm guessing my A/C clutch or bearing is going out. My A/C works very well, but it does click off randomly sometimes, even though the compressor should be engaged. I know they click on and off and pressure rises and drops, but it'll click on and then right back off, then come on a few seconds later. A/C blows super cold in a few seconds, so the system isn't leaking.

I doubt that's causing any starting issues, but is definitely something I need to get taken care of. I have tried starting the car with the A/C off in the past as I've read in other posts, no change in starting events though.
'07 S60 2.5T AWD - 125k - Stock, daily
'94 854 body - '97 850 turbo engine (looking for engine code, the plate is too dirty) - 5 speed swap - basic bolt-on's and ARD Orange tune

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soulvoid21
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soulvoid21

Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by soulvoid21 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:51 pm

I do apologize for not getting back sooner. I had some medical issues and that made it difficult to get to it. I have finally had a chance to pull the spark plugs, the car is now at 123k miles. I pulled all 5 plugs and they all look exactly the same, aged, but not worn horribly enough that would cause a starting issues. Assuming the PO followed the maintenance schedule, they would have been changed not long before I bought the car, and would have about 30-40k miles on them now.

I also want to note this is happening almost every time I start the car at this point. It seems totally random when it starts normally, there's no certain condition that makes it start normal.

I double checked all of the turbo piping clamps, and they all were tight except one, no change though.

I checked the ground terminals that I could find, and they were all tight and clean. This car doesn't blow any oil. Plug valleys were spotless as well and near the coils. I need to find a ground diagram so I can make sure I got them all though.

Coil packs seem fine as well, but are definitely the cars original coils, and were not changed when the engine was. So they have 123k miles on them.

Timing belt looks new.

Is there any way I can check the age of the fuel filter for sure, or should I just try tossing one on since they don't cost much? Once I'm sure the grounds are OK that is. If anyone knows of a complete diagram, I'd love to have a copy. :)

Plug 1


Plug 2


Plug 3


Plug 4


Plug 5


Plug Part Number


Plug Wells


Engine
'07 S60 2.5T AWD - 125k - Stock, daily
'94 854 body - '97 850 turbo engine (looking for engine code, the plate is too dirty) - 5 speed swap - basic bolt-on's and ARD Orange tune

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Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by abscate » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:40 am

Those plugs look like they have very large gaps, spec of 0.7 mm, but pictures can mislead. I would put a new set in and check the gap. Turbos like gap on the small side.

Bad ignition does fit the symptoms, much more so than fuel. The quick test for fuel is checking the fuel pressure at the rail with a gauge, at idle and 20 minutes after shutdown
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soulvoid21
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Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by soulvoid21 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:27 am

I'll grab a set of plugs and throw them in, since they have at the very least, 24k miles on them, if not more. I also don't have a gap tool to actually see what they're at. But just based off me eye balling them, I'd say they're way over the .7mm, probably closer to a full mm..

Is there a set other than OEM Volvo that these agree with? I know the N/As are picky and the turbos even more so, but $60 for 5 plugs is highway robbery. xD

I'll see if I can get my hands on a pressure gauge today. No local parts store near me rents them out.. grr..

Something else worth noting as we're leaning towards it being an ignition issue. Battery is only a few months old, but at idle, I get a lot of voltage variation, I can see it in all of the lights (even some of the dash LEDs). I'll see if I can get a good test on my own today on what voltage I'm actually getting at idle. I stated before there's also a red dust on my serpentine belt and I get a weird squeak from one of the accessories on the belt, but not the belt itself. Almost sounds like a bearing squeak like it's about to freeze up, almost like the squeak the blow motors in Volvo's make overtime. All of the accessories look original as well.

Is there any way I can test the coils to tell if one is bad or going bad? Common signs to look for or anything? A date stamp or something even. I'd be OK with getting a full set of 5 if they're still the factory set, and if plugs don't do it.
'07 S60 2.5T AWD - 125k - Stock, daily
'94 854 body - '97 850 turbo engine (looking for engine code, the plate is too dirty) - 5 speed swap - basic bolt-on's and ARD Orange tune

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Re: 2007 S60 2.5T AWD Fuel Pressure Damper Location

Post by abscate » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:21 pm

You usually get a misfire code when a coil goes. The cracks and stuff don't really indicate much, they either work or they don't. Incidentally, the get constant 12 VDC from the ignition system, and are grounded by the ECU to fire, so they can't be checked running without some EE skills.

They are date stamped - they last >100k miles typically.

Get cheap Bosch copper, single electrodes and replace every 30k. Skip all the Unobtanium BELCHFIRE stuff, you can also regap them at 30k and get another 30k out of them.

The coils MUST be bolted in with those M6 bolts, clean and tight. They are the grounds for the coil current and the HV, so they have to be electrically clean.

You can gap to two business cards thickness if you work for a privately held company, and three if its publicly traded.
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