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Newbie Here

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's stylish, distinctive "P2" platform cars.

2001 - 2007 V70
2004 - 2007 V70 R
2001 - 2007 XC-70
2001 - 2009 S60
2003 - 2007 S60 R

fullmoonboogie2002
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Year and Model: 2004 S60
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fullmoonboogie2002

Newbie Here

Post by fullmoonboogie2002 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:55 pm

Hello All,

In spite of me being a member here for a few years (I got information to repair a friend's '92 240 MT wagon), I am now the owner of a 2004 S60 with 174K miles. Above mentioned friend sold it to me for the princely sum of $350 (US).

So, the car has a loud clattering noise from the driver's right side of the engine, top end (cam area?). Quite loud at start up, but seems to calm a bit after warming up for a minute or two. I drove the car about 15 miles to my home and it ran great without serious sounding noises.

That is the big problem, but after the car sat outside for a few days of light rain, mist and humidity, the car would not start. It would crank, fire briefly and then stall again. Additional efforts to start the car were futile. A helper cranked it over while I watched the exhaust and I saw lots of black smoke telling me it was not firing after the initial, short firing. After a few days of dry weather, the car started fine, with the clatter still present. The car is currently parked outside.

I have not checked codes on it (it is unregistered and un-plated), but it does show the Time for Regular Service warning. Owner claims it has never had issues starting, but the car was always garaged other than days parked outside at his work. His mechanic told him the engine was ruined and unrepairable.

It is a decent car with good (a bit dirty) interior, the body is good with a few scratches and peeling clear coat on the hood. It will probably be able to double the gas mileage of my current daily driver, a Chevy Caprice Wagon with a 5.7L V8, 3.42 gears and a few other mods. I use the wagon to move my sailboat, so the Volvo probably won't be a good substitute.

I am asking for assistance on both the starting issue and the clattering from the cam area. Any direction is much appreciated!

Thank you!

Greg

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mrbrian200
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Year and Model: 2006 S60 2.5T FWD
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mrbrian200

Re: Newbie Here

Post by mrbrian200 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:25 pm

Can you link to a short video so we can listen to the noise? It's possible the previous mechanic wasn't familiar with these engines and was unaware they do not use hydraulic cam followers/lifters and interpreted louder than normal tappet noise (because it desperately needs an oil change) as some insidious major problem. Or you could have a problem. We need to hear it. There's probably 20+ people on here that can tell you what it most likely is by merely getting a listen.

As for the no-start condition when it rains I would check the main battery power and ground cables as well as the engine to subframe ground cable and the ground strap between the passenger side strut tower to the cylinder head. Also a strong possibility might be the wiring to the fuel pump and/or the fuel pump control module. If the pump control module is still underneath the car and was never relocated into the trunk (per Volvo TSB):

Do you see this next to the spare tire in trunk:
FPCM.JPG
FPCM.JPG (12.64 KiB) Viewed 522 times
???

If not, this module is likely original, still underneath the car in a bad spot where corrosion and moisture has been known to affect them, and highly suspect. If you're seeing black smoke the plugs are firing. Probably not enough gas as a result of low fuel pressure. The pump itself shouldn't be sensitive to rain as it's in a sealed tank, but wiring/controller might be.

Georgeandkira
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Georgeandkira

Re: Newbie Here

Post by Georgeandkira » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:39 am

The following is an embarrassing admission:
My previous V70 clicked LOUDLY. Somewhere, somehow a particular brand of oil was recommended as having quieting properties.
Even with a small premium and ridiculous name I tried Royal Purple in the specced weight, 5W-30.
It made my engine run silently. NO, I don't sell the stuff.

Forum people identified the fuel pump controller on my current car, an '07. I found it rattling about the spare tire well so I glued it to the right side of the well's wall using a clear silicone glue. I figured it was better than tossing about and straining its wires/connector.

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mrbrian200
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mrbrian200

Re: Newbie Here

Post by mrbrian200 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:34 am

There are quite a few glowing testimonials floating about for RP in these engines. Tappet noise was objectionable on mine with Amsoil 5-30 (MY06 2.5T). Quieted down substantially with Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5-30 to the point that I don't hear tappet noise at all unless I open the hood. The car just started reminding me a couple days ago that I'm due for an oil change. I might try RP this time around. If I don't like it I'll merely switch back to QSUD next time around.

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Rattnalle
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Rattnalle

Re: Newbie Here

Post by Rattnalle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:02 am

Two 5w30 oils will have slightly different viscosity in reality although he differences are small. Could do its part here.

Unless doing the 05-> long life oil change intervals of 30000 km that require the A5/B5 5w30 I'd stick with a 5w40 or 10w40 as a general purpose oil depending on how cold weather you have.

Georgeandkira
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Georgeandkira

Re: Newbie Here

Post by Georgeandkira » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:33 am

OK, I gotta tell you:
Re the oil. I called a Royal Purple rep (in Texas) and he told me their base oil is Mobil1 and the ad-pack is what differentiated their products. Earlier I had needed some synthetic power steering fluid and a parts shop near me had a wee bottle of RP so I bought it. I suppose that contributed to my willingness to try RP oil.

The sound NEVER returned so I never bought RP again. I'd use any synthetic on sale at the factory recommended 7,500 mile interval.

Now, in my '07, I use Mobil1 0W-40 European Formula exclusively even though it's not a turbo.
I plan on using the same 7,500 mi. OCI.
The true oil freaks claim the M1 is actually closer to a 30W when warmed up.
Castrol's 0W-40 European Formula is said to be closer to a 40W at temperature. I suppose I'd switch to it if I got to 200K again.

Keep it clean.

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mrbrian200
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mrbrian200

Re: Newbie Here

Post by mrbrian200 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:46 am

Northern Indiana Zone '5b', average summer highs around 90, occasionally 100F, winter overnight lows average around 15F, occasionally reaching -10 to -15F overnight.

I have a question. When I bought the car it got superb econ on the 100 mile trek back home from the dealer. It likely had a conventional oil in it, unknown weight. A week or two later I changed the oil to Amsoil signature 5-30, noted somewhat louder mechanical noise, which is my experience with Amsoil in every car I've ever used it in, plus louder/objectionable tappet noise. Fuel econ tanked from that point on as the engine seemed to really 'dog' under moderate throttle/acceleration. This cleared up when I switched to QSUD. The econ came back to what I remembered and expected (high 30's on flat level highway at 60mph), much quieter tappets, no more dogging at light throttle (barely touching the accelerator pedal it will get up to 55-60 if you're patient). When it was 'dogging', coincidentally during the period I had Amsoil in it, I had to press the pedal 1/4 of the way else it simply wouldn't get up to speed. Is it possible excessive tappet noise might be picked up by the knock sensors and misinterpreted by the ECU as detonation? This would explain a lot if it were the case.
Knock sensors are essentially just a specialized piezo type microphone tuned to pick up a specific narrow frequency range. Detonation and noisy tappets aren't that terribly dissimilar of a noise. We humans can tell the difference sure. How adept is the knock sensor/ECU at making the distinction? I would imagine Bosch and Volvo, who are at the heart of this engine management system, would probably take the road marked 'better safe than sorry'.
Last edited by mrbrian200 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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oragex
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oragex

Re: Newbie Here

Post by oragex » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:18 am

Welcome to the forum!

Is you car a turbo ?

I'm not sure if these lifters can be adjusted (they should), but the best approach if the lifter is loud, would be to remove the engine cover and adjust it. It is wise to try improving the issue, as it can cause wear and possibly valve damage if the noise gets louder in the long term.

As mentioned above, all the S60 seems to have mechanical lifters (not sure if the R version is the same). I also had/have this noise, not as loud as others describe. I won't hear it with the hood closed. In the past, I would clearly hear it with the hood open. The noise is at the exact same place, towards the ignition coils at the side of the engine near the engine mount.

This may be due to oil change neglect (restricted oil passages to the head) or clogged PCV (past or present). I say this because it seems it's the lifter on the cylinders #4,5 that seems to get noisy, and when the PCV gets clogged and causes sludge inside the oil pan, the rod bearings on the cylinder #5 are the first to suffer from lack of lubrication.

I also suspect on non turbo engines, the stuck intake air solenoid would cause the top of the engine to get overly hot, again possibly causing oil varnish build up and restricted oil passages. Just suppositions.

I did a Sea Foam treatment and the tick diminished by about 2/3. Now I have to close my ear to the engine head to hear the noise. Again, one should be very careful with such treatment, it can cause more damage than good if the engine has a lot of sludge/oil varnish inside.


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