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Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather Topic is solved

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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by mrbrian200 »

abscate wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:03 am I would evaluate the fuel pressure before going so esoteric.
I'm talking about 2 or 3 often new members that seem come out of the woodwork during extreme cold weather events who in most cases have verified fuel pressure. There are two types of owners that pop in to visit us 1. People who don't really know how to work on a car looking for guidance on basic or advanced issues, usually because they either can't really afford a professional mechanic or they prefer to tinker with their own car, but haven't been doing it for very long. And, 2. Owners that actually are fairly knowledgeable but have come up with something that's genuinely 'funky' that might even present a challenge for an experienced professional mechanic.

Case 2 I think is what's going on with some of these 'long crank with a tach that jumps erratically + eventually starts' business. I think it's pretty rare. But because the cause for this hasn't exactly been nailed down a few seemingly knowledgeable people are ending up on boards such as here asking questions. They assume we're experts and have seen/know everything (LOL!)
abscate wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:03 am There is an interesting dip in thePaschen effect at about 3000 meters height in RF electronics, you have to turn off high power RF when you cross this regime or blow all your circuit boards. Useful for people who fly lasers around
Not the same thing, but as a 'humorous' note I once owned one of those early Chrysler minivans where the hall effect sensor inside the distributor was known to be affected by RF communications around military bases. Every time I drove past Grissom AFB on the way to Indianapolis it would always be in the back of my head 'is this thing going to croak on me? ...whew made it to Carmel, not this time...'
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by oragex »

The 2007 and up also had some issues with stalling/no start due to the throttle body electronic module (not to be confused with the 2001-2002 cars)
Scroll all the way down at the bottom of this page (you can change the year in the link to see more reviews)


https://www.vehiclehistory.com/volvo/s60/2008

Here's another possibility

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=58219

On another note, excessive cranking will damage the starter which is not easy to replace.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by mrbrian200 »

I'm familiar with the bosch type throttle body issue. Dealt with it on my '06 2.5T. With the throttle body issue start/no start symptoms are a little different and the tach on the DIM specifically does not jump erratically while cranking. The tach behavior associated with this particular issue that I believe is entirely isolated from other problems that can occur with the throttle body would probably indicate either CAN data corruption or EM interference in the crank sensor signal. Earlier this season when a couple of these cases checked in I was leaning toward the crank sensor per an old TSB from Volvo. Since then I've questioned that and am leaning toward CAN data corruption possibly from something gone awry with the ignition system/coil packs.

There was one case a month or so back where the owner meddled with coil pack and engine to chassis grounds, stated after a few days the problem hadn't recurred, and hasn't been back that I am aware. He didn't try one thing at a time as I would have preferred which makes it more difficult to determine the exact cause.

I'm not happy applying symptom based fixes without being absolutely certain of the exact cause.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by cejones1927 »

I've created a video to aid in this discussion - Before watching, check out the description as it contains lots of information that goes along with the video. Hopefully, this will help in getting a better understanding of my issue.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by abscate »

The collision of needs on this Forum is the guys looking for the cheap fix,

“ I see this, which part do I replace?”

....Are the last ones to own diagnostics. We have to persuade them to go a store , get the fuel pressure gauge rental too, and confirm 50 psi solid fuel pressure on key on....not “ it seems like it has fuel....I get a dribble from the valve ...or I smell fuel from exhaust...that’s useless.

It’s much easier to vomit information into the thread and hope that one of the Chosen will give you expert guidance but it doesn’t work like that in their shops, so it doesn’t work on the inter webs either.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather  Topic is solved

Post by voltech1 »

I probably missed some things. Has the starter been checked for excessive amp draw when cranking? The tachs jump due to interference from the starter when they draw 200 amps or more. ECM-5200 or something will store for rpm sensor. It might be only a symptom but the starter sounds tired in your video. The low fast idle thing I am not sure about. Just my two moldy cents
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by cejones1927 »

I appreciate the continued discussion on this issue! My hope is to take the things we’ve discussed here to my mechanic and address those in our troubleshooting process. If a solution is ever reached, I plan to update this thread accordingly.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by E Showell »

Sounds like it could be a bad engine coolant temperature sensor. ECT. If you replace that, I'd change the thermostat as well. Has the car ever overheated? Is the temp gauge on the dash reading correctly?
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by cejones1927 »

E Showell wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:48 am Sounds like it could be a bad engine coolant temperature sensor. ECT. If you replace that, I'd change the thermostat as well. Has the car ever overheated? Is the temp gauge on the dash reading correctly?
No, I haven’t had any issues with overheating in the six years I’ve owned the car. The temperature gauge seems to be operating as expected, too.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by E Showell »

Even without an overheat, could still be ECT issue. Check the electrical connector for the ECT sensor. Sometimes coolant weeps down the wires and fouls the electrical connector. It takes 3 min. to check this.
'98 V70 NA FWD 5 spd, silver sand metallic (sold)
'99 V70 NA FWD Auto, dark blue (sold)
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