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Sub frame bushing inserts?

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dlundblad
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dlundblad

Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by dlundblad » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:02 am

Has anyone done them? I'm interested in the IPD poly kit.
https://www.ipdusa.com/products/8969/12 ... insert-kit

My main concern is the sub frame bolts breaking during removal. This looks like it would be rather detrimental as I doubt there's no way to remove the bolts without removing the sub frame entirely.

How to videos make the procedure look very simple. Reminds me of the vertical control arm bolts that required a 4' cheater pipe on my 3/4" breaker bar that was needed to break the bolts.. Lol.
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Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by oragex » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:45 am

These may or may not give a result, depends on how the other suspension components are, in particular the control arms. These inserts can give a little more vibrations.

I would not be afraid about the 18mm bolts, sure some got very rusted but most don't - not sure why the difference. It is good to use the jack under the corner of the subframe to keep it in place when removing and inseting back the bolt

I've read about these inserts that they can be difficult to.. insert. Maybe use a 3/8" ratchet handle to move the center sleeve around when inserting the poly stuff. The center sleeve moves very easily on the subframe bushings - also if the bushing is wet it means it started leaking but may still be good if it's not cracked.

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Georgeandkira

Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by Georgeandkira » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:41 am

I installed the very kit the OP linked to. I could feel the difference immediately.
The large bolts came out without drama. There was a dusting of corrosion on 3 of the 4 as I recall.
I wire brushed them to clean and applied anti-seize before reinstallation.
The kit comes with slippery stuff which I used.
Running the bolts back in shoves the inserts in; just get 'em started. There's a large washer involved which does the shoving.
I used a corded impact wrench. It can easily be done with hand tools.
I jacked the side of the car and placed a stand between the front and rear mount. I then relocated the jack to use it to shove the insert in on the first one and realized no such severe force was needed.
Really quite simple. I posted about it when I finished.

If you need windshield wiper blades or are filling a piggy bank in order to afford your next set of tires, then don't get these inserts.
The stiffening of the car's feel is real but not tremendous.
I'm glad I got 'em and I recommend them given their affordability.

Who knows? Maybe this post will start a heated "Anti-Seize-on-subframe-bolts" debate ?
Oohhh the humanity of it.
Last edited by Georgeandkira on Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by June » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:45 am

I had my frame bushings replaced at the dealer earlier this year. The frame was already on the ground. For the 2004 S80 the frame had to be sent out because the bushings had to be pressed in and out. Two of the four were bad. Also according to the dealer the frame bolts are one time use only and must be replaced at every removal. Something about the threads deform to hold the torque value? The bolts were a specific type. You might look into that.

The car definitely drives tighter, and the popping sound from reverse to drive went away. It was well worth the extra money. June
My Volvo cars owned
1989 740 GLT ordered
1994 850 4door standard shift ordered
1996 960 ordered
1998 S90 ordered totalled after 3 weeks
1998 V70 GT dealer stock car
2002 S80 T6 ordered totalled
2004 S80 T6 dealer stock car and current car owned

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Georgeandkira

Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by Georgeandkira » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:52 am

Was bushing replacement all you had done or did you have them add the polyurethane insert kit?

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Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by June » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:00 pm

Georgeandkira wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:52 am
Was bushing replacement all you had done or did you have them add the polyurethane insert kit?
Had brand new bushings installed along with all hardware applicable at my Volvo dealer. No inserts, new genuine Volvo parts. It was money well spent in my cars case. The frame had been dropped to replace the rack and pinion a year earlier and the car developed popping sounds, as well as the front tires would alternate rubbing on a hard turn from the right then left side and would change every time the car was in the air afterwards. The worn bushings were hollowed out in the middle allowing the frame to shift slightly from side to side causing the tire rubbing problem. Note if the right tire was rubbing the left it would not rub on the right until the frame shifted again.

The frame was out to remove the transmission to replace the rear main seal. That's when the wallowed out bushings were detected. Before that the popping and rubbing issues were thought to be everything else. One added benefit was a noticeable reduction in road noise. June
My Volvo cars owned
1989 740 GLT ordered
1994 850 4door standard shift ordered
1996 960 ordered
1998 S90 ordered totalled after 3 weeks
1998 V70 GT dealer stock car
2002 S80 T6 ordered totalled
2004 S80 T6 dealer stock car and current car owned

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abscate

Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by abscate » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:48 am

Georgeandkira wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:41 am
I installed the very kit the OP linked to. I could feel the difference immediately.
The large bolts came out without drama. There was a dusting of corrosion on 3 of the 4 as I recall.
I wire brushed them to clean and applied anti-seize before reinstallation.
The kit comes with slippery stuff which I used.
Running the bolts back in shoves the inserts in; just get 'em started. There's a large washer involved which does the shoving.
I used a corded impact wrench. It can easily be done with hand tools.
I jacked the side of the car and placed a stand between the front and rear mount. I then relocated the jack to use it to shove the insert in on the first one and realized no such severe force was needed.
Really quite simple. I posted about it when I finished.

If you need windshield wiper blades or are filling a piggy bank in order to afford your next set of tires, then don't get these inserts.
The stiffening of the car's feel is real but not tremendous.
I'm glad I got 'em and I recommend them given their affordability.

Who knows? Maybe this post will start a heated "Anti-Seize-on-subframe-bolts" debate ?
Oohhh the humanity of it.
The debate ends with Volvo...

Use new screws
Torque to 105 Nm plus angle turn of 120 degrees
Use Lubricant on screws.


At that torque, the screws will be stretching , so the single use is important.

If you do reuse them, punch mark them to expose any loosening, inspec daily, then once a week, then once a month. Add to the annual safety check.
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dlundblad
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dlundblad

Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by dlundblad » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:59 am

I definitely would not reuse the bolts. I can't remember what forum it was, but a member posted their "rusted" sub frame bolt.. Yes, it had rust, but the center portion of the bolt was actually stretched to a very noticeable thinner diameter from plastic deformation. This is the same thing you'd see during a tensile test. 1 time use only for sure as it just isn't worth the risk. Still makes me wonder how people successfully get them out without them breaking..

On a side note, I didn't think they'd want lube on the bolts during re installation? That would make things very different.
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Archer

Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by Archer » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:02 pm

It's an easy project, but a bit physical. I've done 4 sets of these in the past along with complete subframe bushing replacement, never had a problem with the bolt removal. Probably a good idea to replace bolts, however, I never did and I'm sure most people do not. Subframe is not lowered/removed to install inserts, just remove bolt and press in the insert. I generously lubed the insert with LiquiMoly all purpose grease and pressed it in with a socket, similar diameter as the insert, set/guided on a floor jack. Not sure the lube that comes with the IPD kit is enough. Anyhow, it's something to do, seems like it tightens things up a bit. No added vibration. If you're feeling ambitious, Delrin subframe bushings are a nice touch, but that involves more work.

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abscate

Re: Sub frame bushing inserts?

Post by abscate » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:52 am

Volvo subframe bolt 985111 , about $7 bucks each, required, qty 4
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