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Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

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kcwilliams
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Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by kcwilliams »

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased a 2004 S60 base model automatic (no turbo/no AWD) with 150,000 miles (250,000km). The issue I'm having seems to be best described on the forums as a "shift flare" when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear - there is a delay between the 2nd to 3rd gear shift and the tachometer will often rise as much as 500 RPM before the transmission finally makes the 2nd to 3rd gear shift. It seems worse in the first few minutes with a really cold transmission on these near freezing autumn mornings.

A month ago I did a drain and fill (approx 3.5 liters) with the Aisin transmission fluid kit from FCP. That seems to have helped a bit but by no means resolved the issue. Of course the transmission fluid that came out looked poor (dark). I don't know the history of the transmission fluid changes but a sticker under the hood suggests the last one was done at 70,000 miles (115,000 km). I have no idea if that was a full flush or just a 3.5l drain & fill.

After researching the forums I thought my next step would be a B4 Servo Cover Update AW55-50/51 kit from iPd and a full 12 liter transmission flush with Aisin fluid.

My question is this - the forums and even the iPd website suggest that B4 Servo Cover Update AW55-50/51 was mostly an issue in the 2000-2003 model years. Mine being a 2004 model year (“born on” date: June 2003), what do you folks think of my strategy and odds for success? If this doesn’t work what would be the logical next step?
Thanks,
Kevin
pgoes
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by pgoes »

My '04 V70 showed similar symptoms at @100,000 miles. I did a 'full' flush using about 10 liters total until the color changed appreciably, and the problem disappeared completely. So I recommend you start with that- simple & quick.
'04 V70 2.5T, mistral green, 111K
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mrbrian200
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by mrbrian200 »

A single 3.5l drain and fill only results in a minor improvement when symptoms are more pronounced. Mine @ 100k miles wasn't quite as funky as yours at 150k. I don't think I ever saw the tach jump more than 200-250 RPM. But 2-3 was the worst, and sometimes 3-4 very minor with an occasional harsh downshift between 3-2. For me didn't it improve dramatically until the second drain/fill and pretty much resolved after the 3rd. I waited a couple thousand miles between drain and fills to let the TCM adapt to the changing fluid properties more over time.
EngineeringBloke
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by EngineeringBloke »

I still like the iPD ATF drain kit that allows you to run 12 quarts through the ATF cooling line. The ATF came out nice and red after 11 or so quarts. I did this at 60K and it is certainly time for me again (99K). Just have to pickup the ATF.

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/4808/10 ... h-hose-kit

No need to raise the car, run the engine to pump out the ATF. Stop after 2 quarts gone into marked container - I used empty gallon water jugs that I had marked. Top up with 2 quarts of new fluid and repeat 5 times. 12 quarts out and 12 in.
Last edited by EngineeringBloke on Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Georgeandkira
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by Georgeandkira »

To EngineeringBloke: You're right on the money but just note one additional thing. If you drive up on ramps (simple, cheap, fast, easy and safe) and drain the sump, you eliminate 3.5 to 4 quarts of dirty fluid. You skip the step of pouring 2-4-6 quarts of clean, new fluid into dirty fluid. It makes the pump-out process process much more efficient.

Yes, it is arguable that the speed of the pump-out process more than makes up for wee bit of time needed to drive up a set of ramps. Also the same argument says it's worth using 12 to 16 quarts of fluid instead of 8 to 10. My '99 pumped black to clear using 8 quarts of fluid. Using MaxLife Dex/Merc LV or Wolf's Head Super Universal Synthetic is cheap enough to make the argument moot. Using Volvo genuine fluid changes the economics.

Like they say, "It's only money"....but things change when it's YOUR MONEY.

And no, I will not do the "dilution permutations" to support my staunch stance on doing a sump dump first. If you don't, just remember, you must live with the guilt of wasting the world's resources for the rest of your life. Just sayin'.

Also: The B4 Servo cover (when you hold it in your hand) is a disc with a rod sticking down from its middle. I've read that in the older design ones the stick has broken off. The revised one is of beefier construction.

I have a new-in-box, unused one for sale if anyone's interested. I am not a part dealer. It's the only part I have for sale. It's sealed in the Volvo packaging with all the "O" rings and a new internal lock ring. $15US + shipping makes it anyone's. $10 if you ask nicely.
I'll gladly accept Canadian paper. If postage is wacky expensive, we'll have to calculate something fair. No biggie.
I know postage to the UK has gotten psychotically expensive. I don't know if postage to Canada is that crazy.

PM me. I can meet you on the Adirondack Northway (Ha-Ha...but seriously).

Cheers, G&K
kcwilliams
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by kcwilliams »

Thanks for the input guys. So I ordered 12 liters of Aislin transmission fluid and the flush kit from iPd. I ordered the B4 Servo Cover Update AW55-50/51 as well. The born on date of June 2003 concerns me that it might be a defective part - at least 1 reviewer on the FCP site said that he had an old B4 Servo Cover on a 2004 model even though the part was supposed to have been updated at the factory at that point. At any rate I am anxious to get this resolved before the weather gets really cold - I prefer to do my mechanic work on a warm summer day when the only thing cold is the beer waiting when I'm done :)

The drain and fill prior to the full pump out sounds very efficient Georgeandkira - thanks for the tip.

Reading the forums I'm starting to see how spoiled I have been running the old 1998 V70 - no transmission problems with that old dog (still running strong over 300,000 km). I will keep you guys posted on the results.
EngineeringBloke
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by EngineeringBloke »

Hi G&K,
Thank you!

I thought the coolant line ATF exchange pushed all the old fluid out of the system, but you point out something critical. If the ATF sump is not drained first, the coolant line ATF change adds ATF via the ATF dipstick hole into the ATF sump where old and new ATF would mix. I think it is clear that without an initial drain, old fluid will mix with the new fluid. This will continue as new fluid is added. Due to the size of the sump, old fluid is likely to never be completely removed without the sump draining!

I have not seen this commented on before. Although I have seen some videos where people proudly show how much the color of their ATF is improved as they pump and add. But often at the end, the last drain which should be like new, is only close to new - it still has some old fluid in it.

It would be very foolish not to take a moment to do the drain you recommend before doing the coolant line process.

This even clears the ATF that is in the cooler, as it would drain down into the sump when the AFT coolant hose is disconnected for the AFT pump draining (if that is opened at the time of the sump drain) - I really like this. I will use this approach.

- Do you run though the gears with the brake on to ensure that new fluid gets to different parts of the transmission? If so when and how often do you do that?

And Aisin makes transmissions, but I don't think they make ATF. They will make sure they get the right stuff when they sell it. So Aisin and Volvo ATF are likely to be the same and are good if expensive choices. I think Toyota type 4 ATF should be similar and I did use it before, but I am not certain that it is the same. I am still trying to decide on ATF to use. Do you have a comment on ATF for your 07 V70?
kcwilliams
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Year and Model: V70, 1998
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by kcwilliams »

Hi EngineeringBloke,
As far as Aisin making transmission fluid it seems to be available at the regular online dealers. Here is a link to the one I purchased it from but others carry it too. FCP at least recommends it for the AW55-50/51 transmission.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... 1161540kt2
XC70Rider
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by XC70Rider »

My 2007 XC70 was lagging between 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th when I purchased it with 121k miles last May. I first drained out 3.5 quarts on ramps. I noticed a slight improvement but not a fix. 100 miles later I did a complete flush with the trans cooler return line with 12 quarts. My AT doesn't have a filter so I cut that return hose to add on a WIX 58953 magnetic In Line filter. She's been shifting like new since then.

Volvo ATF is made by Mobil so I got 24 quarts of Mobil 3309 on ebay for $140. I plan on doing ramp drains once a year.
Georgeandkira
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Re: Shift Flare on a 2004 S60

Post by Georgeandkira »

To "EB": If the sump is drained and filled beforehand you can row through the gear range selector at any time.
I've used Mobil 3309, Toyota T-IV, Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc LV and Wolf's Head Super Universal Synthetic Transmission Fluid with success.

I hope not to complicate this thread but I have had great results with adding LubeGard (red bottle) at the recommended dosage of 1 oz. per system quart.

The unit in my 2002 was one of the troubled ones. The previous owner had the transmission flushed at the dealer and the fluid was clear as could be. The trouble persisted and I got a great deal on the car. I had the TCM reflashed (which helped noticeably). After reading about LubeGard I added it and the additional improvement was inarguable.
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