[2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

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prwood
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[2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by prwood »

Within the past couple of weeks, I have noticed some rough engine operation, the check engine light is lit, and an OBD scanner pulled up codes P1354 and P1358. VIDA shows codes ECM-3320 and ECM-3340, which correspond with the OBD codes and indicate low signal in ignition coils 3 and 5. VIDA also shows ECM-3503 and ECM-3533, which indicate misfire in cylinder 3.

VIDA had the following freeze frame data stored:

ECM-3320 Freeze Frame Data
ECM-3320 Freeze Frame Data
ECM-3320-freezeframe.png (48.08 KiB) Viewed 1170 times
ECM-3503 Freeze Frame Data
ECM-3503 Freeze Frame Data
ECM-3503-freezeframe.png (47.82 KiB) Viewed 1170 times

My most recent maintenance before this began was replacing all five spark plugs, but it did not start immediately after replacing the spark plugs. Since then, I have done the following to troubleshoot:

- Disconnected and inspected all 5 ignition coils, spark plugs, and ignition coil wires
- Disconnected and inspected two ground wires adjacent to ignition coils
- Cleaned all electrical contact surfaces with QD electric cleaner spray
- Wrapped with electrical tape a few spots where bare copper was showing on ignition coil wires
- Ran fault trace procedure for ECM-3320/ECM-3340:
ECM-3320 fault trace
ECM-3320 fault trace
ECM-3320-faulttrace.png (83.56 KiB) Viewed 1170 times
This showed 0 resistance for both ignition coil connectors in question.

Any suggestions on where to look next? I could try swapping around the spark plugs to see if the problem moves with them.
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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abscate
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Post by abscate »

How old are the coils?

Remember - if its your car, put one new one in the trunk, then write an epic tale of pulling across 8 lanes of Route 128 at 1700 hours and then parking in the break-down lane (which is an open lane in MA during rush hour) and replacing it before you get hit by the Garbage truck

If its her car, five new coils.

:D

When you pulled ECU to check the continuity, did all the connections look fresh with no corrosion?
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Post by prwood »

abscate wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:00 am How old are the coils?
Coil #4 is relatively new... in fact I think it's the one you sent me a while ago.

Coils #1,2,3,5 status unknown. I could swap coil #4 into #3 and #5 for testing purposes.
abscate wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:00 am When you pulled ECU to check the continuity, did all the connections look fresh with no corrosion?
Yes, everything looked pristine, in fact. I gave both the male and female sides of the interface a shot with QD electric cleaner and dried with compressed air just for good measure, though.
Control Units.jpg
Here's a recent photo of the ignition coils... BTW for those keeping score, I did in fact redo the wire looms recently (when I was replacing the spark plugs).
Ignition Coils.jpg
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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Post by abscate »

errr.. those are pretty old. That Number 1 is 19 years old.

I think it might be time.

Definitely move them, one at a time, and see if problem moves.
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Post by prwood »

abscate wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:50 am errr.. those are pretty old. That Number 1 is 19 years old.

I think it might be time.

Definitely move them, one at a time, and see if problem moves.
Whoah, how can you tell? I can barely make out any of the markings?
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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Post by abscate »

prwood wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:53 am
abscate wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:50 am errr.. those are pretty old. That Number 1 is 19 years old.

I think it might be time.

Definitely move them, one at a time, and see if problem moves.
Whoah, how can you tell? I can barely make out any of the markings?
"You have to know these things, to be a King Moderator"

00W44 date code on Coil one Year 2000 Week 44
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Post by prwood »

So my current plan is as follows:

1. Swap suspect coil 3 with known working coil 4
2. Swap suspect coil 5 with known working coil 2
3. Drive and see if error codes move with coils, stay with cylinders, or go away entirely
4. Replace failed coils with $15 coils pulled from junkyard
5. If junkyard coils immediately fail, replace with $47 new Bosch coils
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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Post by DeadEric »

Check inside the boot of the coil. I've had the metal piece on the end of the spring fall off unnoticed. With that missing, the spark has to jump twice and will give those codes.

Boot and spring sets are cheap, I recommend them when doing plugs.

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abscate
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Post by abscate »

Peter..I’ve got a Brand new one or two and several Boston Trips scheduled
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Post by prwood »

TL;DR: I swapped ignition coils/boots/springs last night and the trouble codes came back to the same cylinders, so it seems that the coils are not the issue.
1. Swap suspect coil 3 with known working coil 4
2. Swap suspect coil 5 with known working coil 2
In both cases, I swapped the coil, boot, and spring as one unit. No change to spark plugs. After erasing all DTCs, and going for a brief test drive, the same codes came back:

ECM-3320 (P1354) - ignition coil 3 signal too low
ECM-3340 (P1358) - ignition coil 5 signal too low

Here are the freeze frames from the latest instance:

ECM-3320:
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 9.08.50 AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 9.08.50 AM.png (48.1 KiB) Viewed 1096 times
ECM-3340:
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 9.09.07 AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 9.09.07 AM.png (48.1 KiB) Viewed 1096 times
Given that the codes indicate failure on the same ignition coil even after swapping said ignition coils, it seems logical that the fault is not in the coils but in the wiring leading to the coils. Since I tested 0 resistance between the ECM terminals and the ignition coil connectors, is it possible that there is still a fault in the wiring, but one that occurs under conditions that the ohmmeter cannot duplicate?
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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