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[2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

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abscate
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Re: [2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by abscate » Thu May 30, 2019 7:23 am

Its pointing that way. I don't like that you had bare wires in your harness, either.

A rewire of the Cylinder 3 to the ECU loom maybe? Ugh, thats a lot of work to get that routed right.

I think I would try a new connector to coil 3 first?

on a total whim, try recapping and replacing plug 3 with a known to be good old one, too.

My all data says you should also test terminals A50 and A?? for fault to 12V, too. You want to do that with everything connected and VOM in Volt mode. I think you want engine running too.
Checking connector and wiring

Check ignition coil connector for contact resistance and oxidation according to Checking wiring and terminals. Permanent fault See: Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Checking Wiring and Terminals\Checking Wiring and Terminals. Permanent Fault.
Check signal cable between ignition coil #1 and engine control module (ECM):
#A31 (ECM-3300)
#A30 (ECM-3310)
#A29 (ECM-3320)
#A51 (ECM-3330)
#A50 (ECM-3340)
for a short-circuit to supply voltage according to Checking wiring and terminals. Permanent fault See: Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Checking Wiring and Terminals\Checking Wiring and Terminals. Permanent Fault , a short-circuit to ground according to Checking wiring and terminals. Permanent fault See: Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Checking Wiring and Terminals\Checking Wiring and Terminals. Permanent Fault and an open-circuit according to Checking wiring and terminals. Permanent fault See: Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Checking Wiring and Terminals\Checking Wiring and Terminals. Permanent Fault.
Remedy as necessary.
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Re: [2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by prwood » Thu May 30, 2019 8:41 am

abscate wrote: ↑
Thu May 30, 2019 7:23 am
Its pointing that way. I don't like that you had bare wires in your harness, either.
Yeah... they seemed to show up mostly in places where the cable takes a sharp bend to get into the ignition coil.
abscate wrote: ↑
Thu May 30, 2019 7:23 am
A rewire of the Cylinder 3 to the ECU loom maybe? Ugh, thats a lot of work to get that routed right.
Hopefully I can avoid that...
abscate wrote: ↑
Thu May 30, 2019 7:23 am
I think I would try a new connector to coil 3 first?
I have a couple of new connectors around that I had intended to use to replace ones with broken clips (which is all of them, now). The hold-up was lack of confidence in my ability to rewire the connectors in a robust manner, and the special tool needed to detach/attach terminals.
abscate wrote: ↑
Thu May 30, 2019 7:23 am
on a total whim, try recapping and replacing plug 3 with a known to be good old one, too.
This one seems do-able.
abscate wrote: ↑
Thu May 30, 2019 7:23 am
My all data says you should also test terminals A50 and A?? for fault to 12V, too. You want to do that with everything connected and VOM in Volt mode. I think you want engine running too.
Interesting. The instructions below are for 'permanent fault' (and have you test supply voltage) while the instructions I had were for "intermittent fault" (and have you test resistance).

This is probably a dumb question, but how would I do this test with the engine running and everything connected? In that scenario I wouldn't have access to bare wire or terminals to tap into either the ECM or ignition coil connector. Would I just disconnect one coil and test voltage between its terminal #1 and ground?
Checking connector and wiring

Check ignition coil connector for contact resistance and oxidation according to Checking wiring and terminals. Permanent fault See: Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Checking Wiring and Terminals\Checking Wiring and Terminals. Permanent Fault.
Check signal cable between ignition coil #1 and engine control module (ECM):
#A31 (ECM-3300)
#A30 (ECM-3310)
#A29 (ECM-3320)
#A51 (ECM-3330)
#A50 (ECM-3340)
for a short-circuit to supply voltage according to Checking wiring and terminals. Permanent fault See: Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Checking Wiring and Terminals\Checking Wiring and Terminals. Permanent Fault , a short-circuit to ground according to Checking wiring and terminals. Permanent fault See: Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Checking Wiring and Terminals\Checking Wiring and Terminals. Permanent Fault and an open-circuit according to Checking wiring and terminals. Permanent fault See: Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Checking Wiring and Terminals\Checking Wiring and Terminals. Permanent Fault.
Remedy as necessary.
I also noticed that your list of ECM terminals for testing voltage in a permanent fault from Alldata is different from the list I have for checking resistance on intermittent faults from VIDA:
 #A31 (#A31)
(ECM 3300)
 #A30 (#A30)
(ECM 3310)
 #A50 (#50)
(ECM 3320)
 #A52 (#52)
(ECM 3330)
 #A51 (#A51)
(ECM 3340)
Maybe the vehicle manufacture dates are different enough that terminal layout has changed?
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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Re: [2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by DeadEric » Thu May 30, 2019 8:57 am

Not that I'm doubting what you're posting but generic P1354 in Google comes up as a vvt issue and p1358 in Google comes up as cylinder 2.

Again, I don't doubt what you're posting I was just trying to find code setting criteria. I've found that knowing under what conditions the codes set, helps in ruling out possibilities. I've seen someone post code data but I don't know where they get it from.

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Re: [2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by prwood » Thu May 30, 2019 9:25 am

DeadEric wrote: ↑
Thu May 30, 2019 8:57 am
Not that I'm doubting what you're posting but generic P1354 in Google comes up as a vvt issue and p1358 in Google comes up as cylinder 2.

Again, I don't doubt what you're posting I was just trying to find code setting criteria. I've found that knowing under what conditions the codes set, helps in ruling out possibilities. I've seen someone post code data but I don't know where they get it from.
My code reader refers to these as vendor-specific codes and I have to select "VOLVO" before it will display them. The code reader itself displays:
- P1354 - Modulation Piston Displ Sensor Circ. Malfunction
- P1358 - Cyl. 2 ignition circuit Open Circuit

Alldata has this table that maps P-codes to Volvo codes, and this does correspond to what I see when I read the codes with VIDA/DiCE:

Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 11.19.09 AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 11.19.09 AM.png (73.96 KiB) Viewed 179 times

In addition, in some previous drive cycles VIDA/DiCE had shown ECM-3503 and ECM-3533 along with the above, which are thrown when there is a misfire (ECM-3503 is a general misfire code and ECM-3533 specifies the misfire was on cylinder 3).

That being said, I wouldn't totally rule out a VVT issue as I have had some VVT codes in the past (though not in quite some time).
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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abscate
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abscate

Re: [2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by abscate » Thu May 30, 2019 9:57 am

DeadEric wrote: ↑
Thu May 30, 2019 8:57 am
Not that I'm doubting what you're posting but generic P1354 in Google comes up as a vvt issue and p1358 in Google comes up as cylinder 2.

Again, I don't doubt what you're posting I was just trying to find code setting criteria. I've found that knowing under what conditions the codes set, helps in ruling out possibilities. I've seen someone post code data but I don't know where they get it from.
Thats why when it is a "P1xxxx" code Google isnt very useful. The 1 designates a manufacturer specific code

You sometimes get a good mapping if you google " P1xxx Volvo " but that usually leads you to MVS

:D

Peter - i think your wire mapping is indeed model year change. 2005 is a new CANBUS so changes were made.

I think you can back probe the Number 3 coil connector in place with the engine at idle.

VOM on DC Voltage.

Compare to other coil Number 1 terminal
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1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 BMW
Link to Maintenance record thread
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Re: [2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by prwood » Fri May 31, 2019 1:52 pm

I decided that rather than jump right into the electrical testing, I should do some work to inspect the wires and get them into the best shape possible. Last night and this morning I did the following:

- Removed the split wire loom I had recently installed
- Removed the silicone wrap that I have added over the years
- Removed older electrical tape that had been present prior to my ownership
- Left a few places that I had freshly wrapped with electrical tape prior to installing the new loom, since I knew the state of those wires.
- Also gave the same treatment to the exhaust VVT solenoid cable
- Cleaned and photographed problem areas

I consulted the ECM electrical diagram on Alldata to identify all wires. This is the section covering ignition coils:
Ignition Coil Diagram.png
Ignition Coil Diagram.png (38.05 KiB) Viewed 162 times
- Each connector has signal on pin 1, ground on pin 3, and power on pin 4. Turbo engines do not use pin 2.

Here's what I found after assessing the wires:
- Coils 3* and 5* were the ones VIDA reported to have low signal.
- Coil 1 power, ground and signal had exposed wire in one spot each.
- Coil 2 signal and power had exposed wire in one spot each, ground had exposed wire in two spots.
- Coil 3* signal and power cables were ok, ground had exposed wire in one spot.
- Coil 4 signal was ok, power was exposed in one spot and ground was exposed in two spots.
- Coil 5* signal was ok, power was exposed in one spot and ground was exposed in two spots.

- VVT cables - one was nearly severed in one spot after having apparently been repaired in another spot, the other cable had some exposed wire.

For photos of the carnage (put your drink down and finish your lunch before viewing), click here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jN58YjrHp6DmFSpc6

Next steps:
- For the VVT cables, I'll repair the one that's nearly severed, and wrap the other one's exposed area with electrical tape.
- For the ignition coil cables, I'll wrap any areas of exposed wire with electrical tape.
- Once that's all done I'll hook everything back up and start the electrical testing.
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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Re: [2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by prwood » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:08 pm

Update on this:
- I repaired the VVT actuator wires.
- Although not directly wired to the ignition coils, I noticed that the TCV wires which were hanging on by a few strands, so I repaired them as well.
- I rechecked the ignition coil cables and grounds and patched a few spots where insulation was missing. There were no breaks in the wiring.

After that, I was still getting "signal too low" codes for cylinders 3 and 5, so I tried swapping the spark plugs in 3 and 5 for plugs in other cylinders. Still the codes came back.

Next, I cleaned all ignition coil connectors (M and F sides) and applied dielectric grease as specified in VIDA fault trace for ignition coil signal issues.

I've driven about 1,500 miles since then (road trip to PEI last week), and the only code that came back was P1358/ECM-3340 (coil #5), which has only occurred once. I haven't noticed any performance issues with the engine. Since the dielectric grease seems to have helped a bit, I'm thinking there must be an issue with the connectors. I'm wondering if it would be worth pulling a whole wiring bundle from the top of another B5244T3 engine and splicing it on.
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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Re: [2001 V70 2.4T] Ignition coil cylinder 3 and cylinder 5, signal too low (P1354,P1358/ECM-3320,ECM-3340)

Post by Chzman » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:15 am

I have the same issue, and most of my wires looked just like your pictures. I showed my pics to my local mechanic (very reliable shop for 30+ years I have used them) and he said he has never seen anything like that. Surprised.

My question is how to check the signal wire when cranking the engine to verify I have a good signal going to the coil pack? I have not found anything on how to test these wires and verify signal strength/existence. I got donor harnesses from a local pick-a-part place and spliced in the coil pack connectors and repaired all the bare spots with tape and high temp silicone covering. Soldered most connections, and have tested green/white positive leads and all are good. I just need some guidance on how to test the signal wires to the coil packs to insure I have good connections.

Any guidance or references would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks...
Chuck

1968 BMW 2002 300K+
1977 BMW 320i 325K+
2007 XC70 149K+

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