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2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler Topic is solved

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enotslim
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim »

Right. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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Re: it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos »

enotslim wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:12 am I believe these are MacPherson struts. The spring sits between the upper mount, that is bolted to the top of the strut, and a spring perch that is part way down and integral to the strut. Normally, the entire spring/strut/upper mount assembly is removed/replaced as a unit. That can't happen now because the id of the upper portion of the broken spring is so wide that it bypassed the perch and came to rest on and be constrained by the stay and control arm. The lower portion of the broken spring still sits loosely in the perch and rings like a horseshoe when driving over bumps (which I no longer do with this car).
MoVolvos wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:18 am
enotslim wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:36 am
The spring is definitely broken - it's in three pieces... Don't know if this perch is worth trying to save.
IPD or maybe even Volvo calls the unit a Shock. Shocks are normally
installed on the outside not in the center of the Spring. When it is inside with a Strut Mount on top
and loaded it should be called a MacPherson Strut as that is the generic name for the design.

I apologize but I did not answer your question about the perch originally. I only provided the MacPherson Strut design and noting yours as that. The spring perch is welded and an integral part of the design. The perch sandwiches and loads the spring with the strut tower. Shocks do not a perch and no Strut Tower so is separate from the spring.

The only exception is a helper shock as also mentioned in my earlier post. It however does not replace the spring but just a helper. Have them on my Odyssey and it keeps the van level under load and also behaves like a larger sway bar so the van is super neutral on an on/off ramp.

Let us know how you went about it? The amount of spring that broke off may have caused the strut assembly to unload enough that by lifting the car up you might be able to just remove the rusty bolt and the spring should fall down without much pressure. I don't think you could remove it as an assembly as the lower part of the spring is no longer resting on the perch. Careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-

Again: Helper Shocks Not Strut Assembly
Helper Shocks Not Strut Assembly.png
Helper Shocks Not Strut Assembly.png (155.02 KiB) Viewed 116 times
Blessings,

BKM

1998 S70 T5 - Donated
2003 S80 T6
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2008 C30 T5
2019 Atlas SE 4 Motion
enotslim
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim »

Significant progress. The strut/control arm bolt was easily loosened (breaker bar after BP Blaster/tapping three times over the course of 2 weeks) with the wheel jacked as in a previous post to expose the bolt. With the wheel off I can also see how a strut tower replacement is normally done. With the rear end on jack stands I think I can safely remove the strut and broken spring one way or another. Assembling and installing a new strut tower should be straightforward from there following the good info here and elsewhere online.

But I have a question that frustrates me in general and prevents me from finishing this repair in particular. What are *two* safe spots to jack and jack stand the rear of this 2004 XC70? Robert's video on this topic for P80 cars is very informative but is not entirely applicable. Does something similar exist for P2s like the car in this thread?

Almost every source I find talks about one good site. But you need two to first jack and then place jack stands. Maybe I'm missing something. This is why I actually did not use jack stands to loosen the lower fitting as the described in this post. However, I also was not under the car (I never go under anything, eg my 1998 V70 T5T, without jack stands and other safety measures in place such as wheels topped with wood).

I used the spot indicated in the photo here for the jack for these photos. I think this is the approved site for a commercial lift. It seems like a good spot for a jack stand. What other sites are safe to jack and/or jack stand? A spot in the center to lift both sides, my preference even when working only on one side, would be best. How about the control arm near the midline as in the image here?

Is the lower strut/control arm a good spot (but maybe not with a broken spring as here with more force delivered to a bottomed out strut itself)?

The spots intended for the factory supplied jack would work but not, I think, with a floor jack unless it had a special adapter to avoid crushing nearby material.

Thanks.
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos »

-
Do not use the control arm. The arrow is pointed to "no man's land". The force acting on the part is at the strengthened ends and bushings to soften the forces acting on it instead of just being pushed up directly. You should be able to use the pitch weld for either the jacking point or jack stand. My preference is to have the jack stand at the widest points possible (pinch weld).
Blessings,

BKM

1998 S70 T5 - Donated
2003 S80 T6
2003 GS300
2003 Odyssey
2008 C30 T5
2019 Atlas SE 4 Motion
enotslim
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim »

I successfully disassembled the broken strut spring/strut/control arm. It took a bunch of coaxing with hammers and pry bars and a second jack to relive tension alternately on the strut and various coils of the broken spring. I don't remember the sequence. Lots of trial and error and eventually it went "boing" (ala Abscate) but not very vigorously or dangerously.

Because the strut and spring eventually fell out haphazardly I wasn't able to mark the orientation of the spring seat on the rubber shim. I took a guess and reassembled using a new spring. I wasn't able to install it partly because I was tired, partly because I didn't have an assistant to pry the control arm, partly because Volvo's suggestion to use ratcheting retaining straps seems pretty useless and I hadn't yet seen the tip of using a scissors jack to depress the control arm and partly because installing is a pia. I thought it would be the easy part.

Thanks for your help. I need a rest before attempting to install.
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2019-07-28 12.07.50_400 px..jpg (63.61 KiB) Viewed 100 times
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2004 XC70
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1988 240 Wagon
1998 V70 T5
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos »

enotslim wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:51 pm
Lots of trial and error and eventually it went "boing" (ala Abscate) but not very vigorously or dangerously...

Because the strut and spring eventually fell out haphazardly I wasn't able to mark the orientation of the spring seat on the rubber shim.
Just as I pictured. Not dangerous and kind of plopped down. With the amount of coil broken and how far the spring had dropped the tension was pretty much gone. What's left was to move it enough to clear the bolt. That spring when compressed is being pushed by around 1/4 (really less) of the cars weight. Depending on your leverage it might be 125~150 ft/lbs.

Glad you were able to get it done safely. The rear brakes look like they need a little help while you are in there :?:
Blessings,

BKM

1998 S70 T5 - Donated
2003 S80 T6
2003 GS300
2003 Odyssey
2008 C30 T5
2019 Atlas SE 4 Motion
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim »

I did feel it was safe. I wasn't under the car and the jack stand/jack/backup were solid. I did notice the brakes - thanks.

Two remaining issues stand between me and success (and avoiding a tow, which would be a sad outcome):

1. Is there a way to properly align the spring seat on the rubber shim? The proper position of the spring on the strut perch (bottom) and rubber shim (top) are clear but I wasn't able to mark the seat/shim alignment position before everything fell apart? I can eyeball it, and the fit sort of "feels right" in certain positions, but I want to avoid trial and error: (assemble/install/disassemble/adjust)repeat. Would dealer or indie service guarantee this alignment first time (for a fee, of course)?

Is there a graphic somewhere illustrating correct positions and angless of the assembled strut/spring/shim/seat? I find images but not sure they are accurate enough.

2. I also need a way to decompress the "empty" control arm for clearance to put the upper strut in place before bolting above and attaching to the control arm below. The image here shows my initial attempt using the vehicle jack. It can be better positioned and seems it might work. I was surprised by the amount of compression on the control arm at baseline. I'm skeptical a simple lever will be stable enough.

Thanks again.
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Now:
2004 XC70
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1988 240 Wagon
1998 V70 T5
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MoVolvos
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos »

-

Start with the Strut. The spring perch on the strut will determine the lower position of the spring end as it is bolted on. The rubber idolator on top should also form to the top of the spring. From there you can eye ball where the Spring Seat fit on the top using the holes in the strut tower of the vehicle.

https://www.volvopartswebstore.com/show ... evel=28254

It's interesting as the photos shows two setups. Volvo calls it a shock absorber. Although both show a picture of a Nivomat shock this link does say: Level control kit V70XC, XC70, awd
https://www.volvopartswebstore.com/show ... ct=1109218

See if that helps. Not quite sure of your second question from the picture?
Blessings,

BKM

1998 S70 T5 - Donated
2003 S80 T6
2003 GS300
2003 Odyssey
2008 C30 T5
2019 Atlas SE 4 Motion
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos »

-
Decompressing the lower control arm? You should try Volvo's suggestion except added a piece of wood in the center of the suspension so it pivots between both control arms.

Imagine someone pulling your arms back (strap) and something resting on your spine so the strap can increase the angle of the pull. Something smooth or round so the strap can slide across it.
Blessings,

BKM

1998 S70 T5 - Donated
2003 S80 T6
2003 GS300
2003 Odyssey
2008 C30 T5
2019 Atlas SE 4 Motion
enotslim
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim »

The idea of using the vehicle jack to decompress the lower control arm came from here:
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthrea ... post187448

Maybe the photo from that link, attached here, is clearer? This shows right rear, I believe. Didn't want to invert (to match the photo of my left rear) in case the sides are not identical.

Right now I've only jacked the left side. I think both must be off the ground for Volvo's strap suggestion to work. I can do that, of course, if needed.
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Now:
2004 XC70
Then:
1972 144
1988 240 Wagon
1998 V70 T5
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