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2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler Topic is solved

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's stylish, distinctive "P2" platform cars.

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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:05 pm

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Can't get the full grasp of the suspension parts placement or geometry. From what I can see you might wind up pulling the sheet metal at the top outward before you can extend the scissor jack enough to the length of the strut. Only way to find out is to try it but be careful if it does want to fly outward or worse if it does?

It would seen to be safer to follow Volvo's method.
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:13 pm

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I believe the link shows the scissor jack on another point to the side of the upper control arm inbound & extended but straighter up and down. Yours is on top of the control arm. The spring compressor is helping to shorten the length of the strut also.
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Strut Installation.png
Strut Installation.png (584.47 KiB) Viewed 70 times
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:14 am

Assembled the strut tower pretty easily once I figured out that the "safety mechanism" limited the spring compressor to three coils. This just didn't allow enough compression for the strut to clear the spring seat enough to start the retaining bolt - even when adjacent coils were virtually touching. Eliminating the safety and compressing four coils worked (and the comppressor did not look unsafe).

Pretty sure the strut tower parts are correctly aligned. At least they "look" aligned.

Thanks for correcting me about placement of the scissor jack. Big difference. But I still can't depress the control arm enough to fit the strut. Need about two more inches. The jack is not at full extension but very difficult to crank further. Maybe it's possible but...

Your image shows the strut shortened by a spring compressor. Is that necessary? The clam shell compressor I used can't fit to do that. I have a two part compressor (unused) but I don't think that would fit either.

Jack-standed the right rear wheel so both rear wheels are off the ground. No big difference.

Then tried Volvo's method using this ratcheting cargo strap: https://www.harborfreight.com/3300-lbs- ... 60689.html If anything this was not as good as the scissor jack at depressing the control arm. Image attached here. This is a pretty inefficient way to apply force in the direction needed. I didn't use the block of wood idea to increase the vertical component of force applied. I guess I'll try that also but shouldn't be necessary since Volvo's method doesn't include it.

Otherwise I'm at a loss right now. I disassembled the strut tower with broken spring and removed from the control arm, reassembled strut tower with new spring without benefit of knowing the previous alignment - but can't reassemble - this should be the easy part. Seems like I must be missing something else, similar to the need to compress four coils, not just three.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks.
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:47 am

Must both struts be removed from their respective arms for Volvo's strap method to work well? Otherwise the opposite side strut-arm connection will restrain the free arm? Or maybe this actually helps the strap method because the spring tends to expand the length of and thus lower the opposite side strut.

Also, maybe I need a larger handle on the ratchet. Cheater bar for the handle? Or a winch. Cable puller winch? There must be some better way to make Volvo's strap method work.

Volvo's diagram attached here shows a vertical line through the strap. Maybe this means "apply force here", as in hang your body weight here with the car on a lift. That would not be much use for a driveway mechanic but would be instructive. The wood block idea would substitute for the weight but likely less effective and can only be used where it will not damage other structures.
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:23 pm

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Yes, you must release the tension on the other side. As the angle increases the easier to pull them both down. The closer the force is perpendicular to the pivot arm the greater the torque. If you do not wish to remove the bolt you can create the angle by turning a jack stand upside down in the middle of the strap.

You start with a greater angle but you need to be sure the strap can slide across the jack so it doe not get pulled over to the other side. Make sure the bottom of the jack is resting on parts of the suspension that won't be crushed.

Right now the other side is limiting you from creating a greater angle. Image the control arms are your arms. It's like someone pushing into your arm rather than pushing downward (Angle of Yellow Line).

PLEASE USE CAUTION & WATCH EVERY MOVEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Red Line = Upside Down Jack Stand
Yellow Line = New Starting Angle For Strap
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Greater Angle.png
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:08 pm

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Sorry, you may have to turn the jack stand right side up. The legs might restrict the control arm movement?
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:21 am

Thanks again for your explanations. Very helpful.

I would be happy to use Volvo's retaining strap method without anything to redirect the force vectors. Seems like the most controllable option (as you suggest). But I want to understand the entire process so I'm not left with two unattached struts.

It seems that once both struts are connected to their upper spring seat and lower control arm fittings the retaining strap may still be under significant tension. What is the proper way to release this tension? I know how retaining straps are intended to work. This seems like a problem here. Releasing the ratchet, in addition to being difficult under high tension, will allow the control arms to rapidly return to their usual position (on jack stands) and the strap to return to neutral in an uncontrolled manner. This seems like a bad idea. Wouldn't it be better and safer to use a reversible device to apply and release tension in a controlled way?

What does this? A cable winch or some other type of winch? A hoist? It's somewhat akin to raising and lowering a load against gravity. Ratchet straps are intended to secure cargo against dynamic forces during transport not to apply constant force for transport. (Volvo's use here is like using a retaining strap for transportation.) My understanding is cable winches are designed to deliver directional force for transport but not for raising and lowering - i.e. not reversible. Is this correct?

What is the right tool to apply and release the tension needed to lower and relax these control arms?
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by abscate » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:32 pm

Once you get the struts back in with the springs, the control arms will only pop up,a bit against spring tension

Don’t over think it, just keep,your face away from parts under tension while popping the strap release
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by MoVolvos » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:36 pm

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Measure the Strut that is currently out and see how much more distance is required for the other to be fully extended. This will help you to gauge where you are at when pulling. When you get to that point then remove the bolt and continue to pull till you can install the other side.

You could potentially increase the angle of the strap by inserting the scissor jack in the middle to extend the center distance in red if it does not damage the suspension? Crushing / forming a piece of 2 x 4 on top of the scissor jack against the suspension should cause little or no damage at all

When you have both bolts installed the tension in the strap may seem significant but once released the force will be pickup by the spring. This especially true if you are able to use the scissor jack in the center. The difference in measurement from the strut in the car vs the one out of the car will give you a reference on how much tension when releasing the strap. My guess is not that great.

Last week we loaded a non running 03 Jag X Type onto a non rental trailer. Had to use long wooden planks against the ramp of the trailer as the trailer was very high. Use a strap to pull it up. The CAT got caught on the way up and we didn't realize it initially. So with weight of the vehicle and front wheels still going downward on the ramp plus the tension of the stuck CAT it was not that bad releasing the strap. As long as the car is stable on the jack stands you should be fine.
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Re: 2004 XC70 Rear Spring it's the spring not the muffler

Post by enotslim » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:49 pm

I lubricated the scissor jack (this did help) and tried it one more time. Many, many cranks and very tight. My jack was way more extended than in the photos from others who used used this method. I was within 0.5 inch of slipping the strut onto the control arm when the jack slipped. Bent - see image. Just a bit and not dangerous. It's not working as I expected. Next tried the ratchet retaining strap but, again, nowhere near as much deflection as using the jack. I didn't try the other methods for redirecting the force vectors. They make sense but also seem like they should not be necessary. No one else describes having to so tis.

Another thought. I had to jack the right side (intact spring) much higher than the left (broken spring) to remove the wheels. Does this make sense? I placed the jack stands as high as possible but maintained this difference. Probably a mistake. The left jack stand (where I'm trying to install the rebuilt strut tower) is 13 inches, The right is 16 inches. Could this 3 inch tilt make lowering the control arm on the low side much more difficult? I should probably level them but is this likely to make much difference?

I could try it with the strut tower partly compressed to shorten it. Not hopeful though.

However, I may be defeated. Just taking too long. Weeks with intermittent time to work. Either something in this suspension is not right and is limiting my ability to depress the control arm or I just can't do it. It seems too difficult, like trying to assemble the strut tower with the safety feature that limited compression to three coils. Almost impossible because there just wasn't enough distance that could be compressed. Four coils worked easily. Seems like there must be a "four coil" solution to my current impasse.

How do you suggest I move this car to a shop for repair, which seems the most likely outcome? The wheels can be back on but it won't have a left rear strut or coil spring.

Thanks for your help. I learned a lot.
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leftBrokenSpring_2019-08-03 19.14.56_400px.jpg
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rightIntactSpring_2019-08-03 19.15.19_400px.jpg
rightIntactSpring_2019-08-03 19.15.19_400px.jpg (72.99 KiB) Viewed 37 times
tilt_2019-08-03 19.21.49_400px.jpg
tilt_2019-08-03 19.21.49_400px.jpg (60.03 KiB) Viewed 37 times
Now:
1998 V70 T5
2004 XC70
Then:
1972 144
1988 240 Wagon

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