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2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

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cfelberg
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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by cfelberg » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:09 am

- Pete - wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:44 pm
VTL & a few others have posted about this before - glove testing at varying RPM’s & loads. I know he is a firm believer in replacing the expensive pipe that runs from the top of the breather box/oil trap back to the turbo. I personally have only done 4-5 of the PCV system’s & I've never replaced that upper ($175) pipe. I’ve always just checked it to verify it isn’t blocked down near the nipple & none I’ve encountered have been so have always just replaced the nipple & have never had an issue. I’m in no way saying he’s wrong (because he rarely is), just that it could be a possibility.

Pretty much any turbo gasser is gonna have blow by, but I’d think that would be more than normal in your case, if blow by is the culprit.

Did you drop your oil pan at all?
I did replace that pipe you speak of as I got the full kit, but as you indicated mine was not blocked at all down by the PTC. Does he replace the pipe with a stock one or a modified enlarged one? I didn't remove the pan, but did clean out the accessible portion of the ports and was able to blow air through it and felt it come out of oil fill and oil jumped out of opening where dip stick tube had been removed. Did you ever take readings of the amount of pressure at varying RPM's and loads with instrumentation or just the glove?

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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by - Pete - » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:50 pm

That's been my hunch as well with that spendy upper pipe. The bottle-neck is where the PTC nipple ports into it & that's the most likely & most obvious (as well as easiest to check) place for a blockage, thus why I've never replaced one. I figure if you're cooling ok (coolant temp), there are no blockages at that tiny rubber pipe where the PTC nipple plugs in & there are no "large evap leak" type codes I don't really see the point in replacing it. On the pre-06's that upper pipe was covered in a foam type material for insulating purposes. On the 06-07's (maybe 05's too, I don't know since I don't own nor have serviced an 05) they had the updated pipe you can see on FCP, the pipe that has a couple rubber slip joints & an elbow or two.

The only way to monitor oil psi is at the port on the front of the block. I don't even think you can monitor oil psi with ViDA. I'm still trying to get mine working, but I can post back once I get mine going if I'm incorrect on this. I've never, ever read of being able to monitor oil psi via ViDA. The oil psi port/sensor is literally almost dead center on the "front" of the block, just to the drivers side of the oil trap. I can't remember, but is a 19mm or 22mm & is not easy to access. Taking out the radiator fans makes it much less aggravating.

Far as measuring vacuum, you can do it via ELM327 or a manual boost/vacuum gauge. ELM327 data is pretty ambiguous & slow to load, especially on pre-06's, but you can get an idea if you have vacuum present at lower rpms/loads using it. No, I have never measured vacuum at the filler cap, but that may be a good idea. Would be a pretty easy setup, just would need a flat rubber disc type thing, hole in it punched for your vacuum gauge & just have someone (you trust) run the throttle with the car in gear (brake applied of course). Presently, I would not have my wife in the drivers seat with this task.

VTL has a pretty extensive knowledge on this topic so may want to PM him. Sorry I couldn't be of more help in pinpointing your possible occlusion.
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cfelberg
2001 V70XC 142k
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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by cfelberg » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:11 am

Thanks for the info Pete! I laughed when I read your comment about not asking your wife to take on that task at the moment. When I did the glove test I rigged up a mirror and was able to do it myself.

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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by cfelberg » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:00 pm

Just an update on this for informational purposes - I replaced the banjo bolt under the intake manifold with the udated one that has a check valve and it did lower the crankcase pressure. I was getting readings of -.05 Kpa at idle and up to 1.9 Kpa when under boost driving with the old banjo bolt. After replacing the banjo bolt I was reading -.25 Kpa at idle and .9 Kpa at boost when driving.

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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by - Pete - » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:10 am

cfelberg wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:00 pm
Just an update on this for informational purposes - I replaced the banjo bolt under the intake manifold with the udated one that has a check valve and it did lower the crankcase pressure. I was getting readings of -.05 Kpa at idle and up to 1.9 Kpa when under boost driving with the old banjo bolt. After replacing the banjo bolt I was reading -.25 Kpa at idle and .9 Kpa at boost when driving.

Chad, thanks for posting an update. Can you please post the banjo bolt Volvo part number/link that you went with?

That sounds like a pretty significant reduction of pressure.

I’m currently troubleshooting a similar issue on a 01 2.4T (front intake cam seal pushed out of head & ensuing massive oil leak) & haven’t ruled out the banjo bolt yet. I’m still not sure it isn’t something malfunctioning in the turbo circuit. I traced the oil leak 3 miles to its beginning & the engine was only puking oil when the car was approaching & almost at a stop. 4 stops or near stops were made in that 3 miles & the total amount of oil left in the engine was a hair over 3.6qts.
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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by abscate » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:34 am

Isn’t that just sloshing of the oil in the cam cover on deceleration? The cam cover is slightly inclined with the intake higher than the exhaust, so oil pools in the rear ( engine right) side of the cam cover until it’s derp enough to drain down. Maybe stopping it sloshes forward and spills down?
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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by - Pete - » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:28 am

There has to be enough PSI in that intake cams confines to push out the front seal - that's what I do know. What is evading me is why PSI built in the first place. 145k original (I assume) PCV at first glance literally appears incredibly clean. I'll use my endoscope to investigate further. I even hooked the black box inline with my cpap last night so I could "feel what the car is feeling" (bad joke). PTC nipple wasn't occluded either. Banjo bolt (early no-check valve, free-flowing design) had the usual amount of gunk but all holes were still open. The fact that the PCV system appears 100% is what makes me wonder if the turbo was back-feeding PSI somehow. I haven't monkeyed with waste-gates really ever on any turbo'd vehicles. Could that be a possibilililililty?

After briefly sleeping on it, I find it hard to believe (not in a doubting manner to the OP!) that adding a banjo bolt with the check valve reduced crankcase PSI by half.
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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by abscate » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:35 am

You arent spooling up much boost with these cars standing still. They do NOT give boost based on rpms, but on requested torque. Standing still with brakes on, even in drive, torque is minimal ergo no boost.

The crankcase pressure is coming from blowby on the rings or something else. It might be time for a leak down or teardown to evaluate bottom end.
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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by - Pete - » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:19 pm

My military vehicle guru neighbor thought blowby as well.

My cams are still locked but I'll get some PSI numbers. Not sure where my leakdown tester walked off to but I know where my cheap compression tester is. I knew anyway.

I replaced plugs prior to locking cams. Color looked good on all of them but I did notice they seemed a little looser than I remember leaving them.

Might be a reach with this, but my mother in law, who drives the car, said that day she "romped on it" or something to that effect. She said she passed a car that day, which is something she seldom does. Cam/crank seals were replaced (prior to me buying) by Volvo 20k ago for an oil leak on front of engine. I'm clinging to the hope that it's a combination of "the romping" plus the front cam seal hadn't been seated far enough in when they were replaced.

The timing on this car was off from the dealership when we got it & even after re-timing it several times it still "appears" off to me yet no camshaft advance/retard codes since I righted it.
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Re: 2002 volvo s60 2.4t PCV still blocked after service/replacement

Post by - Pete - » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:09 am

Well she sailed off into the sunset last night. Seemed to run good & the mysterious “large evap leak” code is now gone. I have a feeling I’ll be seeing that code again though.

With a completely empty of oil engine I got cold readings on the cylinders - all right around 90psi. Some a hair under, some a hair over. Some took a few compression strokes to get there. Cyl 1 & 5 got to 90 very quickly though.

On the single VVT engines like this, I believe that setting the front cam seal depth is critical. Looking at how shallow the front exhaust (VVT) cam seal had been set by the tech that was last in there I have to wonder if he didn’t set the intake cam seal just as shallow & that was the reason it got pushed out.
2001 V70XC 142k
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