oil collecting in lower intercooler hose

[rhanke]

Gotta love those 2 for 1 deals
So if there is a lot of side to side play on the turbo compressor wheel I understand it needs to be rebuilt. But does that also imply the output turbo seal is leaking necessarily? In otherwords I am fine with how turbo is currently performing (or not performing perhaps) regardless of how warn it is from its 160K miles on it. But what I am concerned with is if the fact it is so worn means it is leaking all the oil that is making its way down to bottom intercooler hose and then out intercooler weep hose? Now if the 2 are always directly related I have my answer by just checking the shaft play. But if they arent is there anything else I can do to try to determine if the output turbo seal is leaking that badly while I have access to the turbo while it is still in car?

[pkc303]

Be sure to check the flame trap (pcv) system. If you ignore it, and it is clogged, your engine will spring more leaks, some harder than others to fix. The flame trap is easy compared to some repairs.

[jblackburn]

Shaft play means leaky turbo seals in most cases. The seals always leak a small bit; that's why the PCV system is attached there to recirculate the oil back into the engine, but some does get burned in the engine or blown around and down out of the intercooler - even on a NEW turbo car.

As above, I'd first suggest checking the PCV system for clogging. Once the motor is warmed up, try the dipstick test at idle. If you see smoke or blow a slip of paper outwards from the dipstick hole, start by cleaning the PTC connection. If that doesn't solve it, move on to the oil separator box. If at all possible, you should try to avoid rebuilding the turbo - with the exception of the little 13G ones in the LPT models, they're very hardy turbos. Mine has 190K on it and still works just fine with very little shaft play.

[rhanke]

Ok managed to run a couple of the quick tests so have a little more feedback. Should mention since dont believe I did so far that I did run a OBDII tester and didnt come up with anything at all from any of its tests. Next, following the instructions given idled the car for 20 minutes then pulled dipstick and yes could clearly see some smoke coming out and feel some pressure, and it was steady as left dipstick out. Wasnt enough smoke though to even get clear picture of. Did the balloon test and it was just enough to keep the balloon in its natural size and upright, didnt expand it at all. So did get picture of that but description really says it all. So not sure what info that adds since certainly wasnt as bad as I expected from reading others clogged PCV system descriptions and their balloon tests which did inflate or had heavier smoke streams?

Do plan to continue on to do next recommended actions of the cleaning out the PTC valve and checking the turbo shaft play this weekend when have more time than on weeknites.

And guess I better ask this question after the posting about making sure to check the flame trap. I thought that was just another term for the whole PVC system repair? And I had thought that without pulling the intake manifold you cant get to the oil separator box sitting under it and the couple hoses that go thru it? Now if there is more than I can do besides just cleaning out the PTC valve and checking the turbo shaft play, that doesnt require removing the intake manifold, please let me know.

[jblackburn]

There is some confusion between NA and Turbo owners.

There is no flame trap on a turbo model. Simply the PTC connection and then the oil separator box, which is under the intake manifold.

Sounds like you do have a bit of excess crankcase pressure - not bad, but still maybe enough to cause the oil everywhere. Time to dig out the PTC valve from the back of the engine.

[rhanke]

Ok finished cleaning out the PTC valve yesterday so here were the results. Both smaller and larger hole were fairly well clogged as people had guessed would be the case. Though smaller hole seemed to be mostly foamy blockage so not sure how clogged that really was.
Now after putting the car back together ran it for 20 minutes and repeated the oil dipstick pressure check and unfortunately got same exact results as before. Can see smoke, light steady stream, coming from dipstick. If put a balloon on it there is enough pressure to hold it upright, not inflate it at all though. Now after shutting car down setup my overnite drip check and got a soda can size puddle vs the previous coffee can size one. But only idled car for 20 minutes, didnt drive it, didnt engage turbo, so even the soda can size one seems to indicate I basically have same amount of oil leakage as before I am guessing?
So felt turbo wheel spinning freely when had the intake hose off to clean PTC valve. And really couldnt feel that turbo wheel have much noticeable side to side movement at all. So from what folks were saying I would have to guess then that I dont have the excessive shaft play I was expecting to find. Which would have indicated my turbo was shot and its seals were leaking the coffee can size nitely drips I have been experiencing last couple weeks. So just guessing then that the inverse is true, but wanted to ask that. If there isnt excessive shaft play is it safe then to assume that the turbo seals arent leaking a lot of oil? And if that is true does that then supposedly lead to the conclusion that the oil collecting and leaking from the lower intercooler hose is being caused by some other part of PCV system being at least partially clogged?

[jblackburn]

Keep in mind there is still tons of oil in the hoses. It is not going to make a difference right away; and it's possible that your hose from the PTC back to the oil trap (or the oil trap itself) is still clogged.

I would remove the intercooler hoses and wash them and the intercooler out. Dawn or Cascade dish detergent works well for pulling the oil away.

But yes, since you are not seeing any shaft play your turbo sounds like it's just fine. These turbos hold up for a very long time compared to the old oil-cooled models used in older Saabs/Volvos.

[Alecw81]

Check your rear cam seals.

[gilhuly]

When you checked for turbo shaft play did you check it in both directions? It is normal to have a little radial play(I say up/down - too much play would cause the fins to hit the top or bottom of the housing) and the turbos were designed with radial play so the shaft rides on a cushion of oil. Axial play, which I think of as in/out play and at the extreme could cause the fins to possibly hit the front or back of the housing is often the cause of oil being able to get around the seals. When you disassemble the turbo, you see a bronze bushing that has actually worn down allowing the play. So the question is did you check for the in/out play on the shaft?

I do agree that these are very hardy units and 160k is a bit early for one to go, but it has definitely happened before.

[gilhuly]

I was going through my copy of VADIS and realized that the description of air flow was backwards and incorrect as it relates to inlet and outlet of the intercooler after looking at my car. The flow is described as going into the top and out the bottom which is incorrect for at least 96-97s. Flow is intake>MAF>turbo>bottom of intercooler>top of intercooler>throttle body>intake manifold etc..

The amount of oil being described leads me to believe that oil is effectively being prevented from draining out of the turbo either through a physical restriction in the drain tube or, more likely that crank case pressure is building and not allowing the oil to move in that direction. As an alternative the oil is being pushed along the intake track up the intercooler house from the turbo and then down the intercooler to the point where it can leak out the weep hole.

This condition almost has to trace back to blockage in the catch can portion of the pcv. There are two ports on the can. The lower port is basically a drain allowing reconstituted blow by to return to the crank case. The upper is the port which is outbound from the crank case and connects to the thicker hose that runs over to the intake track at the turbo next to the PTC. My current theory is that one of the two ports or both are plugged at the block and the resulting pressure is in the turbo oil return line as well as the crankcase resulting in not allowing oil to drain back into the oil pan. The cause of the pressure is one or both(probably both) ports being blocked. But then I would expect more pressure in the dipstick. A plugged oil return line from the turbo to the oil pan could create enough blockage to allow oil to pool in the turbo and be picked up by the intake track over to the intercooler. This would create the oil leak without creating tons of crankcase pressure. Checking the drain line might be a cheap first line of attack.