Wheel alignment preparation... (98 S70 N/A)

Post by **theWIFES_S70** » 30 Jun 2016, 19:47

Hey guys, I think I need a wheel alignment.

What do I say as I go into an alignment shop?

Last time I went to a Mavis, the guy said I needed a bunch of things and was going to impound the car because it was unsafe to put on the road and he didn't want to be liable. (I was 18 at the time...) And well, yeah, I was intimidated as all hell. $1000 later, I got the car back. Didn't really notice anything before or after. Lesson learned.

But as you can see, that experience left a really ugly taste in my mouth.

Over the years, I've built a relationship with a good mechanic, but he doesn't have the fancy wheel alignment stuff. I'm getting that "peeling" out sound again. This can't be related to changing motor mounts, right? Oh my gosh, the car sounds so much quieter with all new mounts, but that's for another post!

I did notice the other day, as I jacked the car up from the front, when the tires came off the ground, they kind of bowed in a little. And I'm getting that "inner" tire wear thing. Though, not too much since we don't really drive that much around here. Is this the result of subframe bushing gone bad? tie rods? my GABRIEL READYMOUNTS! (oh yeah!) or do I just need a better wheel alignment? Thoughts? Thanks guys.

Post by **abscate** » 30 Jun 2016, 20:12

Don't sweat the wheel position up in the air, it's meaningless.

With the wheels up, do push pull and feel for slop

Top/bottom slop is ball joint and control arm

Side to side slop is tie rod end, usually outers

If you have no slop, a front wheel alignment should run you about 70 bucks.

Inner tire wear is bad toe adjustment , wheels are toed out.

Post by **tryingbe** » 30 Jun 2016, 22:54

http://www.volvotips.com/index.php/850- ... ce-manual/

I like the below spec.

Front
-1.0 camber
Even caster on both side
.33 toe

Rear
.07 toe
caster/camber not adjustable.

Post by **oragex** » 01 Jul 2016, 06:54

Remember never get under the car lifted on the spare jack

even for a second

While there, why not checking the geometry by yourself? Last time I had a poor experience at garages I started doing it myself. It's been 10 years since, and never had issues with uneven tire wear.

The toe-in on front wheels is the most important adjustment, and it's done at home with the wheels one the ground.

JeffHicks · Post by **JeffHicks** » 01 Jul 2016, 07:53

These chain shops, like Mieneke, Firestone & Brakes Plus, are NOTORIOUS for upselling and ripping people off! Never go to one. The best way to find an honest alignment shop is either through word of mouth, or YELP (or some such media).

As "abscate" already said, you can tell a lot just by getting the wheels off the ground. Grap the top & bottom of the tire & try to move it back and forth. If you have vertical "slop" you have a ball joint/control arm issue. If you have horizontal slop, you have a tie-rod issue.

Good luck! I just had my '99 V70 aligned yesterday. $79.95 at a local shop. No up-selling, and everything is fine.

Post by **erikv11** » 01 Jul 2016, 08:31

tryingbe sort of mentioned this but not so clearly and it is key so take note: really you should have a 4 wheel alignment done, not just the front. Especially if it hasn't been done in who knows how long. I always get a 4 wheel alignment done any time I take a P80 car in for alignment.

I used to live in NY (Long Island), I have some sense of what you are up against: first step is to find a shop that knows how to do a 4 wheel alignment, and won't just rip you off. It was vry difficult for me to find a mechanic I could trust there. And for anywhere, I agree completely with JeffHicks about chain shops. When I lived on LI there was only one place, down by the harbor, that I would go to for aligning my 850. For other repairs I went to a second shop in town.

Go in and ask them if they can do a 4 wheel alignment on a late 90s car that has trailing arm rear suspension. If they don't know what you are talking about, time to go to the next shop. If they say yes they can, then ask them if they provide before and after printouts of the vehicle specs. This is a common thing for a decent shop but not all will do it, because not all will actually check and deal with the rear. As mentioned, on the rear only toe is adjustable, but an important component of the 4 wheel alignment is thrust angle and many shops will not check it if they are just doing the front.

Moreover, almost no shop will adjust anything other than toe in the front, on these P80 cars. Their shop manual will tell them only toe is adjustable. And the manual is more or less correct, there is a tiny adjustment possible for camber but there is no adjustment for caster. For camber just get the front in the air, loosen the two strut to steering knuckle bolts, and pull the bottom of the tire outward as far as you can, then tighten the bolts. That will give a small amount of negative camber as suggested by tryingbe. In your shoes I would adjust the camber now at home, then go find a shop. The shop printout before and after alignment will include a reading of camber, caster and toe, even though the will only adjust the toe. This way you will know what the camber is, too.

kippster41493 · Post by **kippster41493** » 01 Jul 2016, 08:51

I just got an alignment done yesterday. I went to a local shop, it was a lot cheaper, the technician was very nice and one to one with me, and did not try to upsell. He was actually nice enough to stay late for me. The wheels "bowing in" is because of the way the control arm/ knuckle holds onto the hub and is naturally going to do that with no load on it.

I would recommend going somewhere local and not a chain for the above reasons. They will typically be more than happy to explain what the read outs are saying and what they are doing to adjust it. Because they are willing to do that, they usually don't try to sell you other things unless it's an actual issue, they will show you what's causing it and how it affects tire wear. My tires are pretty much junk (had to get some used one because when I bought the car they were all at 2/32's) I've replaced struts, shocks, coils, sway bar links, and tie rods. He explained why the tires were wearing the way they were.

I have to replace something else in the rear end (I'll make a separate post of it) essentially there are 2 pieces that are what adjust the toe which were broke. Instead of putting shims in or just trying to adjust them he showed me up close what was wrong and that he wasn't going to touch it just because he was afraid if he did it would break more and not be able to drive the vehicle. He gave a deal on him replacing those parts and finishing the alignment. Also he helped me figure out the strut mount bearing was binding up, he explained how to fix that and told me he had adjust the camber on that side and will do it again for free once I get it fixed.

In all going to alignment shops isn't that bad, especially if you start out showing you know a thing a or two about the vehicle. If you have questions, get up close to vehicle and point out exactly what you're talking about. That also helps with them not upselling if they understand you're there for one thing and one thing only.

kippster41493 · Post by **kippster41493** » 01 Jul 2016, 08:57

erikv11 wrote:
Moreover, almost no shop will adjust anything other than toe in the front, on these P80 cars. Their shop manual will tell them only toe is adjustable. And the manual is more or less correct, there is a tiny adjustment possible for camber but there is no adjustment for caster. For camber just get the front in the air, loosen the two strut to steering knuckle bolts, and pull the bottom of the tire outward as far as you can, then tighten the bolts. That will give a small amount of negative camber as suggested by tryingbe. In your shoes I would adjust the camber now at home, then go find a shop. The shop printout before and after alignment will include a reading of camber, caster and toe, even though the will only adjust the toe. This way you will know what the camber is, too.

'

The shop I went to took a dremel to the holes that hold the knuckle on to get more of an adjustment for what was spec for my 850.

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 01 Jul 2016, 09:03

I agree- just do a google search for your area... alignment as well as frame shops. You'll find someone who will find pleasure in working on your car. My experience with the chain stores have typically been dismal. This is, unless you know someone who works there. I used to take our fleet to NTB Tire and had a good relationship with a few guys there for several years. They were always curious what I was doing to my cars and I bought up to 3 year alignment contracts with them. However, after a few bad experiences after these guys left, I have had them try to up-sell me things that I don't need (including a print out of what they wanted to do to my car- "flush and add DOT-3 brake fluid" when my cars all take DOT-4...gee!!), and one time, right after I changed out the front rotors and pads on my wife's V70, I had them tell me that my rotors were shot and I needed all new brakes on the front. More recently, they refused to work on my S40 because it had been "modified." I became more and more pissed and after the S40 fiasco, I let them know in no uncertain terms that they have lost my business on 4 cars that I own. Since then, I have taken my car to a local place - alignments and frame work is all they do! I am beginning to build a relationship with them and we can "talk cars," which is a huge plus!

Post by **theWIFES_S70** » 01 Jul 2016, 10:27

Thank you for all the suggestions (and for the moral support!). I'll definitely report back after I head to a shop... I know this great european-specific shop in Queens (Project M-Spec) that did some work on a Mini... If they can work on BMWs, they can probably handle a P80! I'll steer away from those shops that claim they can do a $50 alignment!