06 XC70 brake lifespan?

Post by **scot850** » 19 Jan 2018, 14:54

We have owned out 06 XC70 since 09 and it was bought as the 2nd owner from our Volvo dealer with approx 55,000 miles on it. The car has been serviced there and from the outset we had brake issues at both ends with brake vibration. We had the rotors skimmed almost straight away but within the next 5000 miles the problem was back. The rotors were replaced at the dealer with new OE fronts. Brake vibration was back again by the next service so all 4 rotors were replaced (fronts under warranty) as well as pads and parking brake shoes as they had delaminated. This was at 112,000km or about 15,000 miles after purchase. ow the dealer says all the rotors and pads need replaced again with the car now at 144,000km, so the 'new' brakes have done 32,000km so far, or 20,000 miles. Is this normal wear and tear on these cars? I have never owned a car where the brakes have lasted this short a distance. Mind you my son drives the car and it is mostly city driving up to a max. of about 50 miles an hour.

I had an 01 Suburban (a heavy vehicle) and it eventually had the rotors replaced at 144,000km for the first time with a skim around 90,000km and new pads. Same type of driving.

I had a look at the front and rear pads and the fronts are definitely worn and could do with new pads. The rotors had a bit of a lip, but are at 26mm. Rears are harder to measure without removing the wheel. I don't want to cheap out on the brakes but I thought you should get the life of 2 sets of pads to each rotor change or is that just on my P80's? My son drives the car and I have driven with him and he is not a hard driver (when I am there LoL!). Loads of pad dust front and rear but that is normal with OE pads.

If OE rotors and pads are this poor on lifespan, are there any alternates I could fit that will not diminish the great braking this car has finally got since the last brake flush?

Thanks,

Neil.

Post by **Rattnalle** » 19 Jan 2018, 15:05

No that isn't normal in any way. Not even close for normal driving.

I've tried both cheapo own brand pads-discs and more expensive OE-quality Zimmermann stuff and they all last a *lot* longer even though the cheap pads and discs were quite soft and wore quickly. At most I've used half a set of pads in about 20000 km but that included quite a bit of driving and breaking with heavy loads and driving at speed on the autobahn and in the alps. Didn't put noticeable wear on the discs though so those pads must have been very soft.

It does sound a bit as if one or more calipers isn't in good shape. But I do hope that has been checked and rechecked when you wore out the first set quickly. If the hub surfaces aren't even you can also quickly get discs that cause vibrations since they rub in one or more places.

Post by **oragex** » 19 Jan 2018, 17:20

As above, did the dealer also remove and clean the caliper sliding pins and use the correct Volvo grease? It is important, along with - at this mileage - replacing the brake fluid.

Remember that bringing an old car to the main dealer is expensive not only because of the parts, but also because they can be 'zealous' in replacing the parts. A brake disc should last at least 50K km in severe city traffic (which puts the most wear on brakes).

You say there is a lip on the disc, the wear limit is when this lip is about 1mm tall but I would keep it more, close to 2mm
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread ... -Thickness

As mentioned, there are several aftermarket brands for the pads and discs. Aftermarket doesn't mean racing or tuning, simply companies who offer worst, same or even better quality than what Volvo will install. I've hear Zimmerman, Brembo discs are great, and I use Akebono pads which make basically no dust. Ebay sells all these, plus other sites such as Ipd USA, Fcp Euro, Eeuroparts (this last one one uses Canada Direct shipping service that is free of duty and customs fees)

If you still have vibration and the calipers are properly lubed at the sliding pins, I would suspect the wheel lugs don't have all the same torque. When these are torqued too much, the wheel gets damaged causing the lugs to be difficult to torque at the correct numbers. When all lugs don't have the same torque, the brake disc gets distorted causing vibrations. The wheel can be cleaned where the lugs is inserted, which will return the disc at the correct shape and eliminate the vibrations.

Post by **scot850** » 19 Jan 2018, 23:22

Brake fluid flush has been done (brakes improved greatly afterwards). The dealer knows me very well (I worked there for a while and also a customer for 15+ years). They know I am particular (a pain for details) so normally they pretty good at doing work right, but not always. Best part is it just had the 144,000km major service less than a month ago. Had to get an insurance inspection and the 'know your vehicle' report highlighted nearly $2000 in repairs up-coming. Brakes were $1300+ of that. Even with a marginal discount the front and rear rotors and pads are about $750 CDN alone!

I had a look at the front brakes and the pads are worn. Rears also but not as bad.

I'll speak to the foreman next week to see what is the basis for this info. They also included the hinge for the fuel flap was broken. I will have to look at a new one to compare, but it works fine as well as the lock mechanism so not sure what that means. They have also listed the hood strut needs replaced (the one they broke last time and replaced under warranty!!).

The problem is they have got new staff who don't know me and will need an education not to through stuff and hope it sticks!

Thanks for the inputs. I have used Zimmermann rotors before and they were good except a bad from new set I once got. PO of my 2000 'R" fitted Akebono pads to the front rotors. Love the clean wheels, but the pads are slow to warm and even then are ok, but don't grip as well as OE or as consistant. Too cheap to just swap them out, but will do once they need it!

Neol

Post by **abscate** » 20 Jan 2018, 02:35

20,000 miles for heavy city driving is not crazy short, that's the worst kind of driving for brakes. It definitely is impacted by driver habits, too, not to dump on Jr.

Post by **Rattnalle** » 20 Jan 2018, 02:42

abscate wrote: 20 Jan 2018, 02:35 20,000 miles for heavy city driving is not crazy short, that's the worst kind of driving for brakes. It definitely is impacted by driver habits, too, not to dump on Jr.

Unless you're trying to be a race driver and hit it 100 % on both stop and go it still seems crazy short. Especially for the discs.

Post by **oragex** » 20 Jan 2018, 04:56

I tend to agree 20000 miles is suspect when it comes to the disks - although it doesn't sound like the disk is completely worn from Neil's description (just my interpretation). I also know the garages are very willing to replace the disks, with many saying new pads requires new disks (which, of course, is not true)

As for the pads, my 2c is that it may be explained by softer pads material - better force at braking but also faster wear. A compromise. On the other side, the way the brake pedal is depressed has a great influence on the wear. Usually I have a very light foot on the brakes in my city driving which is about 90% of my driving, I tend to brake early with light pressure on the pedal. My pads last a very long time. In opposition, someone who is braking shortly before the stopping line, will apply a greater pressure on the pedal causing much faster pad wear in time. But again, I do believe that the original Volvo pads have better grip but also wear faster than other brands. And they are dusty! So dusty.

Finally, a brake job at Volvo is very expensive, the bill you had is a good proof of this. The very same job done at a smaller garage with quality aftermarket parts would run less than $600 all incl. And you will have just as good results. We mentioned two brands of discs here, but there are many good others, a google search on forums of all car brands will give good suggestions for a purchase.

Post by **scot850** » 20 Jan 2018, 08:27

Thanks again. Surprisingly, when you go onto FCP website, the price of some of the better brands are actually higher than OE part or at least the same. Usually even with shipping FCP is cheaper than the local dealer, but in this case it is almost identical. Have to decise if I want to do the job myself or not. Fronts are pretty normal but the rears are complicated by the stupid parking brake system, which according to Vida you have to dis-assemble half the car to release the parking brake shoes to remove the rear rotors. Of course the dealer has just adjusted the rear parking brakes at the last service!

If I buy from FCP and fit myself I have lifetime warranty on the parts, if I have the dealer do it I have a lifetime warranty on the parts but not for wear and tear.

Hm, need to think more on this. Oh, I did mention the fast brake wear to our son pointedly!

Neil.

Post by **Rattnalle** » 20 Jan 2018, 09:47

The rears aren't really much more complicated than the front. At least not on a fwd. You might have to release the adjustment bolt at the lever inside the car and apply some mild violence but that's it.

I just changed all my brake parts all round this autumn and in Europe I could get all the parts including parking brake from Zimmermann for something like €250. Local dealer prices more like two and a half times that... I count on the lot except perhaps the front brake pads lasting me longer than the rest of the car.

Post by **scot850** » 21 Jan 2018, 19:37

Being an XC70 it is AWD. Brakes are different, but as I have not worked on FWD or AWD P2 models not sure what is involved. According to Vida to release the parking brakes involves removing the center console completely to access the mechanism. Can't believe it is that much harder than either a FWD or AWD P80. Only reason to remove the center console when working on the brakes is to replace the parking brake cables. Otherwise adjustments are done by removing a small access panel.

Neil.