Came here to research used ETM options - now I'm not so sure

oldandbroke · Post by **oldandbroke** » 31 May 2018, 06:42

Have been having some troubles the past couple of weeks, and have been trying to diagonose it on a shoestring both budget-wise and time-wise.

I checked all the vacuum hoses, thoroughly cleaned the MAF (it *was* filthy), and passed a lot of messages to my dad who works with a Volvo mechanic several states away.

He ended up saying "Probably the ETM"

So I took it to a local foreign car place here, and they said "Probably the ETM" - 800 for parts and 250 for labor to replace.

IF it's the ETM, I'd like to do it myself, and in the cheapest possible manner. But searching here a bit, I see similar symptoms in threads about MAF (maybe cleaning wasn't enough), TPS, and others.

So I'd like to get the opinion of folks here, both on diagnosis and best path forward.

General symptoms -

Idle hunts between about 800 to 1200, car shuts off at idle about 40 to 60% of the time.

If I drive it gently, I can get around fine except the problem with stopping and idling, but if I try to run out the gears at all, something isn't right at high RPM - it doesn't feel very happy to be up there, like there are fuel issues. I could see this being super-rich running, but can't say for sure.

I had no codes at first, but I now have P1103 and P1620.

One weird thing - the first thing I noticed was that the vacuum line to the inlet air thermostat was unhooked. I plugged it in and *thought* I'd fixed the problem, drove the car around for about 20 min and everything was fine. That's the only time in the past 2 weeks that anything I've done has seemed to help, and I guess it must have been a coincidence.

I'd love the opinion of folks here.

IF ETM is the consensus -

Is used an option? I know it will fail again, but for the difference in cost (and due to some changes I expect in the next year) even if I have to do it again later, I'd much rather spend $175 for the part and solve the problem for the short term then come up with $1000 right now.

If used isn't an option, what is the cheapest option?

Thanks in advance!

Post by **abscate** » 31 May 2018, 06:45

Where in PA are you? Ive got a ETM white label off a running 1999 NA that ***Should*** bolt in. Willing to loan to try or stop gap until money is looser..

oldandbroke · Post by **oldandbroke** » 31 May 2018, 08:41

Wow thanks a lot! I'm in Bethlehem, and very wiling to take a reasonable drive to pick it up or pay for speedy shipping - please let me know. If it works I'd be happy to buy it from you, unless you are keeping it intentionally for a rainy day.

I really appreciate it!

Post by **chrism** » 31 May 2018, 08:53

The drivability symptoms "might" point to an ETM issue, but those codes point to other things - a faulty coolant temperature sensor reading (P1620) and a faulty MAP sensor reading (P1103). You may have fixed the P1103 when you repaired the vacuum line. It would be interesting to clear the codes and see if P1103 reappears.

ETM's are expensive so you want to try cleaning it before you buy another one - that's a maintenance task that most Volvo owners find needs to be done maybe like every 50,000 miles. If you have a later model P2 car with a Bosch throttle body, know that they are very reliable. My local Volvo independent repair shop told me they have NEVER seen a Bosch unit that failed, and they work on a LOT of Volvos.

As for the P1620, it could be the sensor itself, the wire connection, or ???? I can't recall where it's located on the FWD engines. Often times a temp sensor can be removed from the engine and the resistance measured with the sensor heated to various temperatures. A cooking thermometer, ohm meter, and kitchen stove are required for this test.

Post by **SuperHerman** » 31 May 2018, 09:17

When you say ETM are you referring to what some call the throttle body? Just want to make sure.

Can you grab a mirror, if you don't already know, and see who makes the ETM on your Volvo. My 2001 V70 XC had a Magneti Marelli which go bad with age.

See here for added info: http://www.ecutesting.com/volvo_throttl ... ti_ma.html

There are many write ups on this issue, but what I did on my car was covert it to a contact less system. Kits can be found on eBay or sent to various parties for repair. It is rather easy to do.

Post by **abscate** » 31 May 2018, 11:41

oldandbroke wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 08:41 Wow thanks a lot! I'm in Bethlehem, and very wiling to take a reasonable drive to pick it up or pay for speedy shipping - please let me know. If it works I'd be happy to buy it from you, unless you are keeping it intentionally for a rainy day.

I really appreciate it!

Its a long hike from either NYC or ALB which are my two locations - next week Im in another country, but I could ship it via USPS to try.

Im about 80k onto my replacement, so no value to me.

oldandbroke · Post by **oldandbroke** » 31 May 2018, 14:57

abscate wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 11:41 next week Im in another country, but I could ship it via USPS to try.

Thank you very much!! PM Sent!

SuperHerman wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 09:17 When you say ETM are you referring to what some call the throttle body? Just want to make sure.

Yep, sorry!

SuperHerman wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 09:17 Can you grab a mirror, if you don't already know, and see who makes the ETM on your Volvo. My 2001 V70 XC had a Magneti Marelli which go bad with age.

I have the white label Magneti Marelli - I can't remember if it was the white or yellow that were supposed to be better,will have to do more reading...

SuperHerman wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 09:17 There are many write ups on this issue, but what I did on my car was covert it to a contact less system. Kits can be found on eBay or sent to various parties for repair. It is rather easy to do.

I thought I'd seen a post from someone saying it's a nightmare, but now you are making me curious. I'll look into it.

chrism wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 08:53 The drivability symptoms "might" point to an ETM issue, but those codes point to other things - a faulty coolant temperature sensor reading (P1620) and a faulty MAP sensor reading (P1103). You may have fixed the P1103 when you repaired the vacuum line. It would be interesting to clear the codes and see if P1103 reappears.

I cleared the codes with my code reader a few days before taking it to the shop, and they came back almost immediately. Since getting it back from them the light hasn't come on (they must have cleared them), but I haven't read the codes, and I've only driven it about 5 miles. Thank you for the additional info though. These guys have a pretty good reputation, but from what I'm seeing those codes don't seem to match the ETM issue as shown in some other links I found. But I'm surprised that they wouldn't mention either of those as things to investigate instead...

chrism wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 08:53 ETM's are expensive so you want to try cleaning it before you buy another one - that's a maintenance task that most Volvo owners find needs to be done maybe like every 50,000 miles.

I will try that also, thanks! I do have the Magnetti Marelli... (2001)

chrism wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 08:53 As for the P1620, it could be the sensor itself, the wire connection, or ???? I can't recall where it's located on the FWD engines. Often times a temp sensor can be removed from the engine and the resistance measured with the sensor heated to various temperatures. A cooking thermometer, ohm meter, and kitchen stove are required for this test.

For both of these - could I just unplug the sensor in question and see whether it makes things worse? My assumption being that if it does it's probably not the source of my current issues? I admit that I wouldn't expect the coolant temp sensor to manifest in this way, but I'm not an auto mechanic. As for the MAP sensor - only the fact that the local place didn't mention it makes me question it - would you expect these kinds of symptoms?

Post by **SuperHerman** » 31 May 2018, 16:50

The link I provided has a parts number listing - you can cross reference to see if yours is one of the problem children.

I know if you have VIDA you can have the program run a sweep where the computer tells the throttle body flap to open and close. It will then reveal whether this is your error. I assume other scanners do the same thing - so if you had a shop perform the "sweep" and it came back faulty that should be instructive.

Basically what happens is the ETM has a flex cable with copper traces that wear out after years of use. Fingers on one side and the flex cable copper trace on the other tells the computer the position of the throttle body flap as the motor operates. If a section is bad the computer cannot read correctly and the car has issues.

By changing the system to a contact-less system a magnet replaces the fingers and flex cable.

Installation is not difficult at all. The kit can be found on eBay - search "Sacer Volvo".

Look here and review the information regarding the MM ETM. It will help you determine if it is the ETM and how to fix it.

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/17 ... resources/