M4.3 to M 4.4: Really that simple?

850T5Ritalia · Post by **850T5Ritalia** » 22 Nov 2019, 12:46

Hi,

'95 850 T-5R with B5234T4 Engine running B5204T ECU
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91969

After finding out I have the wrong ECU(B5204T) for my engine I was looking to replace it. I can't find an origninal M4.3 850R ECU that matches my engine. So the alternative is to place a M4.4 and flash it.

Couple of questions after browsing the forum and the internet about this conversion.

The Wiki says it is as simple as doing the A/C mod, 608 bin(if required) and for the rest it's plug an play.
After a bit of digging I found a lot of people having quite some problemes using the M4.4 on a M4.3 car..
For now I just want my 850 to run smooth and not looking to get into tuning and having to learn all that what comes with remapping ECU's... So when I buy a M4.4 ECU, how much trouble can I expect and where does it depend on? (like different type of M4.4 ECU's or type of car the ECU gets placed in?)

And is the 608 BIN a stock 850R or 70R map or..?

Thanks

Post by **matthew1** » 22 Nov 2019, 13:36

850T5Ritalia wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 12:46
After finding out I have the wrong ECU(B5204T) for my engine I was looking to replace it. I can't find an origninal M4.3 850R ECU that matches my engine.

I think your time is better spent finding a matching ECU. How long have you looked?

Post by **Chuck W** » 22 Nov 2019, 13:37

For your '95, it should be an easy flash and go.

-607 bin if auto
-608 bin if manual

Do the software AC mod. Go.

The VS 607 and 608 flashable bins are '98 Euro T5 spec. 16T would work fine, and you might need to change the injector constant (orange-tops are the default) and perhaps disable some diagnostics to avoid rogue DTCs and CELs.

850T5Ritalia · Post by **850T5Ritalia** » 22 Nov 2019, 13:53

matthew1 wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 13:36
850T5Ritalia wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 12:46
After finding out I have the wrong ECU(B5204T) for my engine I was looking to replace it. I can't find an origninal M4.3 850R ECU that matches my engine.
I think your time is better spent finding a matching ECU. How long have you looked?

I have tried all my local sources so far and also been mailing some people. So maybe if I'm lucky I can find one (M4.3 T-5R ECU)
Now I know this is not the ECU for this motor but I think it is the closest I can get having the B5234T4 engine and a '95 4.3 car..
Speaking of.., Are there actually any differences between the T-5R and the R engine wise? I can think of Turbo and obvioulsy the engine management but besides that?

Chuck W wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 13:37 For your '95, it should be an easy flash and go.

-607 bin if auto
-608 bin if manual

Do the software AC mod. Go.

The VS 607 and 608 flashable bins are '98 Euro T5 spec. 16T would work fine, and you might need to change the injector constant (orange-tops are the default) and perhaps disable some diagnostics to avoid rogue DTCs and CELs.

Is there a good guide on how to change all these things somewhere? So far I found the Wiki44 but I would like some more knowledge or guidance on how tho change injector constant and disabling possible DTCs without having to go and learn all the basics about tuning and remapping. I can follow instructions but my knowledge on engine tuning is super basic.

Thanks guys!

Post by **RickHaleParker** » 22 Nov 2019, 15:37

You need to slow down and figure out for sure which turbo is is on the car. I
The 18T from the R or 13G from the 2.0 T5.

You never clearly stated if the car has a manual or automatic transmission.

Why did you start a second thread on the same subject?

850T5Ritalia · Post by **850T5Ritalia** » 22 Nov 2019, 16:19

RickHaleParker wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 15:37 You need to slow down and figure out for sure which turbo is is on the car. I
The 18T from the R or 13G from the 2.0 T5.

You never clearly stated if the car has a manual or automatic transmission.

Why did you start a second thread on the same subject?

13G on car 16T on the shelf. No need to slow down. 18T is v70R

Manual

Because the other topic was initially about something else and led to a new question and this helps to keep subjects on topic plus attracts people that can answer this specific question that otherwise might not have looked in the other topic.

Post by **Clemens** » 22 Nov 2019, 18:21

Only the manual Rs had the 16T and M4.4. The automatic Rs in 96 still had the 15G and M4.3.
Also, I had been told by reliable sources that a swap to M4.4 on European 850ies might cause trouble with ABS and AC.
Another thing: I am almost certain that the T5-R and R (at least the automatic one) had B5234T5 as the correct motor. T4 might be the 16T M4.4 version for 96.

Post by **Chuck W** » 22 Nov 2019, 19:30

850T5Ritalia wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 13:53

Is there a good guide on how to change all these things somewhere? So far I found the Wiki44 but I would like some more knowledge or guidance on how tho change injector constant and disabling possible DTCs without having to go and learn all the basics about tuning and remapping. I can follow instructions but my knowledge on engine tuning is super basic.

Thanks guys!

The Wiki and the very large thread on VS is about all there is.

My tuning skill is pretty basic, but I'm not trying to wring every last bit from the cars. Mainly I wanted to ability to make some minor changes, and not have to try and hunt down a factory ECU that *might* fit the configuration we came up with.

The injector constant stuff is pretty easy, as are the diagnostic disables. It's just a question of what should be disabled for your set-up. There may also be info in that thread on the things Clemens mentioned, regarding the ABS and AC on the euro 850s.

You're going to get limited replies to any questions in that thread, as most of the guys who did a bunch of the legwork seem to have moved on, or are doing their own tuning services and aren't going to give everything away.

Barring any issues with ABS and AC (I can't there being many, as some of the guys who developed the stuff are in the EU, but you need to investigate that for yourself), your engine with the 16T and whatever injectors you have (orange-tops, blues, whites, greens) should work fine with the -608 bin as it sits (after you adjust the injector constant to match) (It will put you at '98 T5 spec). Again, I'm no expert, but according to what I've read, that's what I would start with. The difference between the "T4" (R-spec) and the "T3" (T5-spec) on the 97-98 cars is just the turbo and some tuning. The engines themselves are basically equivalent.

Post by **erikv11** » 22 Nov 2019, 21:46

I'll add that yes adjusting the injector constant is easy but even easier is to just get white injectors, which the 98 m4.4 bins are written for.

The only potential issue is if the Euro hardware is somehow different for AC as Clemens suggested. I actually doubt that to be the case since the AC mod was developed by someone who lives and drives in Europe, and is definitely being used there. You could PM the coder (Piet on VS), he has been responsive in the recent past.

I expect the simplest path is: 16t, whites, 608 bin, diagnostic disables, AC mod, go.

Post by **Chuck W** » 22 Nov 2019, 23:15

erikv11 wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 21:46 I'll add that yes adjusting the injector constant is easy but even easier is to just get white injectors, which the 98 m4.4 bins are written for.

The only potential issue is if the Euro hardware is somehow different for AC as Clemens suggested. I actually doubt that to be the case since the AC mod was developed by someone who lives and drives in Europe, and is definitely being used there. You could PM the coder (Piet on VS), he has been responsive in the recent past.

I expect the simplest path is: 16t, whites, 608 bin, diagnostic disables, AC mod, go.

Actually, orange-tops are what the VS 607/608's have as default. . At least that's what's there when I've gone into them. I've had to change the values for the whites/blues.

Piet was the one who did the "special" '97 GLT AC mod for me.