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Importance of Reseting Fuel Trim (LTFT).

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This topic is in the MVS Volvo Repair Database » Importance of RESETTING Fuel Trim (LTFT)
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tightmopedman9
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Re: Importance of Reseting Fuel Trim (LTFT).

Post by tightmopedman9 »

In regards to the original post, you stated that the LTFT will change throughout the RPM range. I don no believe this is correct.
First of all, LTFTs are be based on airflow/load, not RPM. You can be at multiple load values all within the same RPM range.
Second, I believe LTFT is a constant number. From datalogging on my car extensively LTFT stays set a constant, it changes periodically, but not throughout the load range.

donis222
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Post by donis222 »

Thank you!!
I tried to find when this adaptive fuel map (AFM) was introduced. I found that it was on 1991 940T.

homerh
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Post by homerh »

tightmopedman9 wrote:In regards to the original post, you stated that the LTFT will change throughout the RPM range. I don no believe this is correct.
First of all, LTFTs are be based on airflow/load, not RPM. You can be at multiple load values all within the same RPM range.
Second, I believe LTFT is a constant number. From datalogging on my car extensively LTFT stays set a constant, it changes periodically, but not throughout the load range.
Thanks, tightmopedman9 for answering the question that was on my mind the whole time I was reading this thread, namely whether there is a single LTFT constant stored for all points on the map or a unique value for each point on the map. I could not see how there could be one for every point because only one value can be read by my scanner and I would expect it to be changing constantly while driving if there was a separate value for each point on the map. On my car LTFT is generally steady as rpm and MAF values change although it does drift up and down a few points over time, depending on the type of driving I am doing.

I now have several questions about my 98 S70 GLT (221K) related to this topic:
I recently noticed a loss of power combined with what feels like a mild engine miss under light to medium throttle (20-30% absolute TPS value). The vibration is most noticeable when cruising in top gear at around 2,000 rpm and then giving more throttle to climb a hill. The interesting thing is that it still pulls pretty well at WOT and idles very smoothly. When I monitor the ECU parameters, what struck me most is the LTFT is consistently hanging around -11-12%, whereas it has always been around +2% in the past. I have tried resetting the LTFT by disconnecting the battery several times and was surprised by how quickly the LTFT would go way negative, dropping to -8% after driving less than 1/4 mi at 30 mph. On should know that the plugs, injectors, all PCV hoses and both O2 sensors were recently replaced. Compression reading on all cylinders are in normal range (185-195 psi). Fuel pressure looks good (30 psi at idle, 42 psi at WOT) and there is no evidence of vacuum leaks. MAF was cleaned and reads about 5 gm/s at idle. The only code is P0455 (evap sys leak - large), but pinching off the hose from the canister just before the manifold did not help.

The questions I have are:
1) I was under the impression that LTFT is only adjusted under steady state cruising conditions. Is it normal for LTFT to be adapted under these driving conditions and so quickly?
2) What could be causing that much negative LTFT, considering all that has been replaced or verified to be operating properly?
3) Are there any other diagnostic tests I could perform that could help pinpoint the cause of the negative LTFT?

All ideas and suggestions are welcome.

northernlights
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Post by northernlights »

When I replaced a set of stock injectors with slightly larger ones, it took about 30 minutes for the LTFT to settle at a final value. The STFT was a different story - that was an instant response down to -20%. And FWIW, I didn't reset the LTFT, mostly by accident as I assumed pulling the ECU would cause it to loose its memory. It didn't and started at the same LTFT I had with the stock injectors, so I assume it started with all of the previous values. The Motronic system is very smart, and quite adaptable.

If your LTFT suddenly went that negative then I would look for something like a leaky fuel pressure regulator. I've seen a number of vehicles where these leak into the intake when they fail, which would explain the enrichment, plug a bad regulator can certainly mess up fueling.

Zeybek
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Post by Zeybek »

northernlights wrote: 14 Nov 2014, 15:50 When I replaced a set of stock injectors with slightly larger ones, it took about 30 minutes for the LTFT to settle at a final value. The STFT was a different story - that was an instant response down to -20%. And FWIW, I didn't reset the LTFT, mostly by accident as I assumed pulling the ECU would cause it to loose its memory. It didn't and started at the same LTFT I had with the stock injectors, so I assume it started with all of the previous values. The Motronic system is very smart, and quite adaptable.

If your LTFT suddenly went that negative then I would look for something like a leaky fuel pressure regulator. I've seen a number of vehicles where these leak into the intake when they fail, which would explain the enrichment, plug a bad regulator can certainly mess up fueling.
I have the same problem with my T5 vehicle. just detecting the mistake? can you help me

Zeybek
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Post by Zeybek »

I have the same problem with my T5 vehicle. just detecting the mistake? can you help me

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pgill
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Post by pgill »

Bruce et. al.

Some 3.2 content to add to the discussion.

Note: I completely agree that a hard reset is a useful thing to do once in a while.


HARD RESET = Remove B+ and B- and leave disconnected long enough for system voltage to drop to zero. (30 minutes is typically sufficient)

For my LR2 with the Volvo 3.2 I do a Hard Reset if it does anything strange.
Note: a Hard Reset can unlatch a frozen Sat Radio module
(a frozen module will drain the battery given enough time)

Having said all of that I didn't do a Hard Reset after I replaced the fuel pressure sending unit on my 2010 S80 3.2 and based on what I read here I should have.

Here is some information from Volvo for the 3.2

The fuel system diagnosis monitor the long term fuel trim adaptions, to check if any of the adaption points has reached it’s limits (rich or lean), and no more adaption is possible. This will not immediately lead to higher emissions, because the short-term fuel trim can take care of additional faults. The long term fuel trim is calculated from the front linear oxygen sensor, and there are 6 times 6 (depending on load and engine speed) different adaptation points. Each point is monitored in order to check if it is higher/lower than the threshold value.

Hopefully this is helpful for the readers of this thread

Thanks

Paul


PS Page 16 has the information that I copied above
MY07B6324S-S80XC90AWD (1).pdf
(603.47 KiB) Downloaded 24 times

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