A comparison: P2 S60 vs E46 3-series

Post by **cn90** » 09 Jul 2022, 10:38

Some of us buy car(s) to drive, some buy them for kids in college etc.

This is a good thread to read:
https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/325i-vs-s60.99224/

So, I bought a 2007 Volvo S60 with 110K miles for one kid and a 2003 BMW 325i
with 100K for another kid in college.
After restoring them to stage 0 bc the cars are 1500 miles away from home, I can tell you that:

1. FWD vs RWD, some advantage of FWD in snow/cold areas.
RWD cars vw/o snow tires is not good in the winter, so avoid driving RWD cars when snowing
(take Uber/Lyft if you have to lol)...
OTOH, FWD causes understeer, the RWD is better on highway.

2. They came from factory with similar price tags...

Anyway, from a maintenance standpoint, I think the BMW is less headache...

1. Front suspension of S60 is gone at 110K, the BMW seems to hold on OK bc their strut
seat/bearing seems better.
Also, the stock BMW Sachs struts seem to hold well at 100K.

2. I replaced the CV Boots on the Volvo (routine maintenance) bc it is close to engine and the
Outer CV Boot is subjected to constant R/L turning.
In contrast, the BMW RWD axles are know to last > 200K w/o the need to reboot simply bc
the BMW axles are in the rear and not subjected to engine heat, R/L turning and road debris.

3. VVT: just did the Volvo VVT, front cam seals and Timing Belt and it is a big job.
The BMW runs on timing chain, known to last some 280K-300K etc. Also
the Vanos (equivalent of VVT) is bathed in oil and may need seals replaced but there
are no cam seals bc the BMW Vanos is behind the cover.
Since the Volvo TB and VVT and cam sensors sit outside of the engine, thus the Volvo cam seals
(front and rear).
So, for this dept, BMW is better, no need to mess around with timing chain, Vanos seals (until you
have to) or cam seals (non-existent in BMW world).

4. PCV system is a pain in Volvo.
CCV is not better in BMW (it is a pain, although less of a pain), but I did the "BavarianE39" CCV
Mod in the BMW, all is good.
Talking about this, I might do an experiment using the BavarianE39 BMW CCV mod on the Volvo,
one day maybe lol...

5. Brake: similar issues: rotors, pads parking brake, front brake hoses etc.
Spark plugs, fuel filters: similar maintenance at 100K.

6. Heater core is easy in P2 S60/V70 (well not that easy but can be done).
I have not done the heater core in BMW bc it easily lasts 200K. But this heater core job
is huge in BMW (taking the whole dash off).

7. Cooling system: similar issues with thermostat, belts, water pump etc.

8. Transmissions (auto) in both are very good, should go to 200K miles.

9. Window regulators are a pain in the BMW.
Volvo uses the "scissor" system for window glass, only issues are the blue clips x2/each front window
or $10/front window glass: easy job in the Volvo S60.

10. Sunroof in Volvo is superior in engineering, none of the broken clips as in BMW.
For BMW, don't even try to open the sunroof lol.

End of my thoughts, both S60 and 325i are fun to drive.
If you want less headache, get the E46, fewer maintenance issues.

Post by **abscate** » 09 Jul 2022, 12:27

But remember , You can always roll in a Volvo , while Bavarian Money wasters are for Bavarian Motor Wankers

Faust · Post by **Faust** » 11 Jul 2022, 10:42

"RWD cars vw/o snow tires is not good in the winter, so avoid driving RWD cars when snowing
(take Uber/Lyft if you have to lol)..."

Some years ago, when I was a more ardent skier, I had a RWD BMW. It was always annoying to arrive at, let's say, Killington and find a sign on the access road reading "BMWs stop here, await tow"

Post by **gnalan** » 11 Jul 2022, 18:44

Kids have it too easy these days. Back in my day we had rwd cars that we drove all year long, even in the snow and on ice (uphill both ways). Manual transmission, manual locks, hand crank windows, and only the seat belt as protection. No ABS, no airbags, no backup cameras, sometimes not even a side mirror on the passenger side of the car. Once you learn how to drive a car like that you can drive anything, in any weather, and feel safe and confident.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited to change typo of perfection to protection.

Post by **erikv11** » 11 Jul 2022, 19:47

Also the S60:
- has such a small rear cabin that it is effectively a two-seater
- is hard to see out of with oversize blind spots, a possible safety issue for young drivers

But I have no idea how the E46 3-series compares on these two points!

Post by **gnalan** » 11 Jul 2022, 19:52

I'm surprised with how little leg room there is for backseat passengers. Even with the front seats up it just makes everyone in the car uncomfortable. The rear doors and seats are good for loading/unloading groceries though.

Post by **br0dy519** » 11 Jul 2022, 20:05

That C pillar blind spot is an issue for me with all vehicles that aren’t a station wagon. Some sedans and even SUV’s have a significant radius that is invisible. Thank goodness there’s that handy-dandy blind spot sensor in the new cars !

Agreed on the rear seat. This thread is making me wish I drove a crown vic for comfort.

Post by **gnalan** » 11 Jul 2022, 20:09

br0dy519 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 20:05 Agreed on the rear seat. This thread is making me wish I drove a crown vic for comfort.

With handcuffs on, and the plastic rear seat, they're not very comfortable.

Post by **br0dy519** » 11 Jul 2022, 21:03

Lmao… i was thinking more like my Grandma’s grand marquis back in the day. Those things drive like a cloud and haul ass.

Post by **cn90** » 12 Jul 2022, 17:14

REAR leg room is bad in both P2 S60 and E46 3-series...
Equally bad. Only good for teenagers < 15 yo.
Adults will have a tough time in the rear when going long trips...