2003 Volvo V70 Vibration at Idle, Not Engine Mounts, This One Has Me Beat

Telerama · Post by **Telerama** » 04 Oct 2023, 18:42

Hello everyone. I have a 2003 V70 non turbo automatic with 59k miles. The car has developed a vibration about 2 weeks ago. First let me tell you I replaced the control arms about a month ago because the driver's side had a tear n the bushing, right side was perfect but changed them both anyway. Lemforder from FCP.

This vibration happens when I press the brake pedal and the car is completely stopped. If the car is moving, I mean just barely, no vibration, complete stop it vibrates, felt in the wheel and seat. Brake pedal travel is normal, not hard to press, I don't believe this has anything to do with the brakes, I think it's because I am clamping the rotors when the brakes are applied.

This is because after all these years of owning the thing, I never touched the front wheels when the engine is running. I just did today and they vibrate. I don't know if this is normal?? So, I set the parking brake and put it in drive, the wheels vibrate stronger, but not felt in the car until I apply the brakes. So, I assume it's because the wheel are vibrating to begin with. Also, in neutral and brakes applied, I can discern a frequency change if you will, a low vibration, but greater when in drive and again because the front wheel are vibrating, right side much more than the left.

Top mount and transmission torque changed about 8k ago with Hutchinson from FCP, I change the right lower mount with Hutchinson yesterday, original mount was not bad, not even sagging. No change. Front and rear hydraulic mounts are fine, no cracking, not even crazing. With the engine running, in drive and brakes applied, I crawled under the car. I can press on the upper part of both hydraulic mounts and there is vibration, normal, I press on the lower part of the mount and barely any vibration. The mounts are functioning as they should.

The steering rack is not vibrating. Touching the drive axles, there is vibration. the sump is vibrating, the tranny is vibrating, but what's normal for a 5 cylinder? Any ideas fellas?

First have any of you ever felt your wheels with the engine running and in gear? Do your wheels vibrate? The engine runs fine, no misfire. no hesitation, no codes. When I press the brake pedal, no drop in RPM's, idles at 745, no drop in voltage just vibration felt inside, because again, I believe it's because I am clamping the vibrating wheels. Tranny fluid complete change at 30k, fluid is still translucent pink.

Using "German" Castrol 0w30 for several years, this last change, about 5k ago, went to Castrol 0w40 because I could not find 30 weight. No change in performance or MPG. Maybe harmonic balancer but the belt is not wobbling. This one is beating me. Anybody? Thanks.

Post by **Blacklab467** » 04 Oct 2023, 19:52

I am thinking you are new to Volvos? I would ask you where you live and what the weather has been since you've noticed the change? My car has all new Volvo mounts and bushings and about this time of year when the weather cools, I notice a significant difference in the engine vibration being transmitted, most noticeably in gear at a stop because your foot will be on the brake pedal with low rpm.
It has something to do with the durometer rating of the rubber in the mounts being different when it gets cold, transmitting a different vibration. In the dead of winter where I live it can get as cold as -40 Celsius and I can tell you that the car feels like a diesel inside. Fortunately Volvo's have great heaters that warm up very quickly and the cabin is toasty warm but the rubber parts are still out there in the cold. It literally took me several years of ownership to figure this out. Old or worn mounts will still transmit more vibration with an ambient temperature drop.
A five cylinder engine inherently has an unusual vibration in comparison to a 4,6, or 8 cylinder, and more vibration than an engine with a "V" configuration.

Telerama · Post by **Telerama** » 08 Oct 2023, 08:59

Thank you for your reply. New to Volvo cars, no. I have owned five 240's and two 850's and this V70 since new. No change in ambient condition when the vibration started. Temps steady at 80 degrees or so. Rear wheels also vibrate as well when in park, vibration increases when in drive with parking brake set and then increases even more when brake pedal is pressed firmly, meaning enough force to keep the car stopped. RPM's never drop, steady at 745 +- 2 I know 240's are a different animal, my 850's never vibrated and this V70 never vibrated in the 20 years I have owned it, through some terrible winters, no vibration. CAN ANYONE out there confirm if P2 wheels vibrate when in park, front right vibrates more intensely than the front left and the two rears are less than the the front left. Simply just put your palm on the tread side of the tire and feel for vibration. Thanks.

Post by **Blacklab467** » 08 Oct 2023, 10:28

I just checked on my own car, vibration is nil in the back, front left wheel indicates some vibration, right wheel more but normal levels for these cars I would say. Vibration changes with Drive, park, A/C on etc. due to minor changes in RPM. Vibration becomes almost imperceptible in drive with the brake on and RPM's increased to 800 or 900.
More important for your car is that you've owned it for 20 years and now notice this vibration so something has changed. Being that you're mounts are all new, I would start looking for a torsilastic bushing or insulator that has collapsed and is now metal on metal. I would look at your front spring seats and Lower control arms, I've had experience with both where the bushing has separated allowing the frame of the LCA to make direct metal contact with the subframe, strut spring seats can separate also causing metal to metal contact in severe failure condition. Expand your search if these items prove unfruitful, looking for anything contacting the engine or transmission to the body or subframe that has become uninsulated.
Hope this helps.

yanga001 · Post by **yanga001** » 08 Oct 2023, 10:32

My 08 s60 2.5T does not vibrate that much in idle. My motor mounts looked "good" but were sagging (hydraulic ones) and one was replaced which made it a bit better.

How is your top mount? Is it a rubber or poly mount, i have heard the poly mounts can transfer more vibrations through the wheel.

My car does not vibrate, i usually check to see the health of engines and suspensions with a palm on each side. Very little to no vibrations.

How are your long and short term fuel trims?

Telerama · Post by **Telerama** » 08 Oct 2023, 11:13

Thanks. No poly mounts. Control arms are about 2 weeks or so changed before this started. Lemforder from FCP, top mount and tranny torque mount changed about 8k ago with Hutchinson from FCP, Right lower mount changed a few days ago, also Hutchinson. Lower mount was fine, not even sagging, but I changed it anyway. Haven't checked fuel trims. Engine does not miss or hesitate,tranny shifts smoothly. No vibration felt in the strut towers, top bar or subframe. The engine mounts are functioning as the vibration is felt on the upper part of the mount and not on the lower part. It only makes itself known when pressing the brake pedal enough to stop the car. At a light, I change to neutral and it's much less noticeable but there. If I keep it in drive, foot off the brake and parking brake set, no vibration. Lightly applying the brakes so the car just creeps. no vibration, just a tiny bit more of force applied to the pedal to stop the car and hold it, vibrations. Tires vibrate regardless, I speak of vibration felt in the cabin. This is why I wanted to know if P2 chassis wheels vibrate. I was thinking if the front wheels vibrate and applying enough clamping force to stop the car, then that vibration is transmitted inside. But if other P2 cars have wheels that vibrate and brakes applied, and no vibration in the cabin, then my theory is crap.

yanga001 · Post by **yanga001** » 08 Oct 2023, 12:17

How are your subframe bushings? If its only when brakes are applied then maybe its coming through the rack? Rack is bolted directly to the subframe while the engine and tranny should rest on the motor mounts if i remember correctly. Any issues with the cv axels?

Telerama · Post by **Telerama** » 08 Oct 2023, 13:08

Thanks, as I stated in the original post, the rack is not vibrating. Subframe bushings seem fine and there is no vibration on the subframe. Running and in park, vibration felt on the drive axles, calipers, sump, tranny etc. But, apparently this may be a normal condition. Axles are in great condition, no torn boots, no slop. Axles bolts changed at the same time I changed the control arms as all of that needed to be disassembled. I didn't want to force the new control arms down to engage the ball joint, so I chose the prescribed procedure for control arm replacement. Perhaps this is a harmonic balancer issue, though no wobble is visible, or at 59K miles something has failed in the transmission, broken/bent fin off the torque converter, not likely as there is no vibration at speed. Although it may not vibrate at speed. .I had that on a Buick. It had a bad torque converter that vibrated at idle RPM and not at normal driving speed or even highway speeds I am gong to remove the drive belt and start the car to eliminate the compressor pulley, alternator and ps pump.

Post by **Blacklab467** » 08 Oct 2023, 15:10

That's pretty low mileage, probably not related to worn bushings or other rubber components. It's unlikely that any mechanical components would "wear" out by that mileage also. Has there been any accidents or potholes hit or anything unusual like that? Can you provide a video with good sound to aid in diagnosis?

Telerama · Post by **Telerama** » 08 Oct 2023, 18:16

No accidents ever, all original paint. Potholes here and there, nothing crazy. The car tracks true and straight. I know mileage is low, but 20+ years works against me with rubber components, although all the mounts I changed were good. Maybe not a waste of money because of the age, but I didn't need them. I will try to capture the symptom on video, may prove difficult to discern. I changed the timing belt last summer due to age along with the idler and tensioner, passed on the water pump due to low mileage. The belt had no crazing or cracks, even at 19 years old.