Wrong ATF killed transmission?

trtvolvo · Post by **trtvolvo** » 02 Sep 2007, 14:37

More info. Despite Volvo Service Advisor describing a "flush", info from the service slip implies "drain/fill":
B10D-Replace or Flush Transmission Fluid
Labor $96.80
Gasket $0.75
Lube ATF PO#. $12.25
Total $109.80

I suspect $12 of fluid covers about 4 qts of Dexron/Mercon (or may just topping off with a smaller of more expensive 3309) - I'll need more info from them to confirm.

Also, fluid color reveals nothing - it's brownish, smells bad. But, it appears over-filled. At idle and cold (right after starting after sitting all night), fill level indicated above the "hot" range (which is above the "cold" range).

So, if not really a flush, Service Advisor indication that the flush "exposed" the problem appears less likely. But, still the fact that transmission-related problems started immediately after the transmission service, I have to suspect still related (and failure caused by the service).

Others on this/other forums indicated mixing Dexron/Mercon with 3309 will cause a problem ("even a cup of one mixed into the other will fubar your transmission").

Thus, if this service somehow resulted in mixing types (either Dexron was in there originally, and they followed service bulletin and added 3309, or otherwise), perhaps, as others indicated, this resulted in the failure?

Post by **JRL** » 02 Sep 2007, 15:16

You got Dex 3 so no mismatch.
Volvo charges something like $16 a bottle for their 3309!
That price is a drain and fill so I really don't think they did anything wrong unless the fluid is over or underfilled.
Check the fluid (always) when HOT AND the motor running it's the only way you can get an accurate measure

trtvolvo · Post by **trtvolvo** » 02 Sep 2007, 17:04

More info. Despite Volvo Service Advisor describing a "flush", info from the service slip implies "drain/fill":
B10D-Replace or Flush Transmission Fluid
Labor $96.80
Gasket $0.75
Lube ATF PO#. $12.25
Total $109.80

I suspect $12 of fluid covers about 4 qts of Dexron/Mercon (or may just topping off with a smaller of more expensive 3309) - I'll need more info from them to confirm.

Also, fluid color reveals nothing - it's brownish, smells bad. But, it appears over-filled. At idle and cold (right after starting after sitting all night), fill level indicated above the "hot" range (which is above the "cold" range).

So, it not really a flush, Service Advisor indication that the flush "exposed" the problem appears less likely. But, still that fact that transmission-related problems started immediatelt after the transmission service, I have to suspect still related (and failure caused by service).

Others on this/other forums indicated mixing Dexron/Mercon with 3309 will cause a problem ("even a cup of one mixed into the other will fubar your transmission").

Thus, if this service somehow resulted in mixing types (either Dexron was in there originally, and they followed service bulletin and added 3309, or otherwise), perhaps, as others indicated, this resulted in the failure?

Post by **pfeener** » 02 Sep 2007, 17:57

Based on the price of the drain and refill, it looks like they put in 4-5 quarts of Dextron III. A complete flush takes 12 - 14 quarts. I would check the transmission level after you've driven for a while and the fluid is at least warm. When you start the car cold in the AM, it has to fill up the torque converter, which can take a little while.

As I said before, if it were me I would do a complete flush, using the procedure described in this forum, which uses the oil pump in the transmission to push out the fluid rather than using a power flush machine. You could do a couple of drain and refills, but if you have the wrong type fluid mixed in there you won't be changing it all out.

One more thing; they charged you $96 dollars for labor. What they did took 10 minutes tops. As in pull the drain plug, let the fluid drain, screw the drain plug back in and refill 4 quarts of Dextron. These guys ripped you off. I would stay away from them in the future. Given what we've seen, I wouldn't limit the ATF possibilities to Dextron or 3309. Who knows what they might have put in; they have no idea either.

trtvolvo · Post by **trtvolvo** » 03 Sep 2007, 00:17

Checked the ATF level again - this time after a drive/hot; level still indicated well above the "hot" range on the dipstick. So, overfill could have contributed.

Also noticed, transmission very loud in N (sounds similar to valves tapping on very low engine oil), but changes to quite quiet when shifted to D (or R or 1/2/3).

On service slip, they indicated diagnosis as "no lock-up in transmission" (although the symptoms seem to indicate difficulty unlocking -engine/transmission).

Post by **pfeener** » 03 Sep 2007, 05:43

The overfill is easy enough to fix. Just pull the drain plug and either let a little drain out or let the whole 4 quarts drain out and refill with Dextron III.

trtvolvo · Post by **trtvolvo** » 03 Sep 2007, 18:18

I think it's too late to simply address the overfill (if that was the root problem anyway). The fluid is brown / stinks bad - presumably indicating transmission innards are fried.

Note, I compared the fluid to that in my '96 850T (same transmission, AW50-40/42, I believe). The 850 fluid is bubblegum pink while the V70 fluid is sh!t brown.

Not also, I had same "replace or flush" transmission service (same dealer service shop) performed on the 850 at 116K (now 123K and no issues).

Service slip for the 850 service was the same as for the V70 (except for the last comment line for the 850 service, w15811 is the mileage, indicating they used 6qts):

B10D-Replace or Flush Transmission Fluid
Labor $96.80
Gasket $0.75
Lube ATF PO#. $12.25
Total. $109.80
115811 1.1 hrs 6qts ATF

Re the V70, I suspect all of the damage must have been done since the "replace or flush" service 1,500 miles ago, or they presumably would have noticed the bad fluid at that time and indicated a potential problem.

Post by **pfeener** » 03 Sep 2007, 19:06

The overfill shouldn't have caused any damage. It's not like an engine, where if it's overfilled the crank will whip the oil into a foamy mess and can damage your engine due to air bubbles in the oil. If the trannie is overfilled the worst that can happen is oil can get pushed out of the dipstick tube when it's hot and the oil expands.

vaffË†râ€°rdetpÃ‚detteviset · 18 Sep 2007, 02:47

I think the problem is simply that your tranny oil is old and needs replacement. If it's brown and smells bad then it should have been replaced long ago. A simple drain and refill won't do the trick, you need to flush it. I just did this in my AW50-42 gearbox and used up 25 litres (sorry dont know how much that is in gallons) of Dexron IIIG. If you've been towing heavy trailers, boats etc the oil ages quickly. In Sweden the taxi companies have a recommendation of their own to flush every 64000 kms, Volvo say every 80000 if you're towing heavy trailers, campers etc a lot. I think your oil was overdue for replacement to start with (95k miles is about 152000 kms if I'm correct) and the drain/refill only took care of 1/3 or so of all the oil in the tranny. As you kept on driving the inevitable wear - because of the "overdue" oil - kept going on and now your experiencing problems. If I were you I'd flush the tranny, and see if that helps. Otherwise I think it might have to be replaced or overhauled.

trtvolvo · Post by **trtvolvo** » 16 Mar 2010, 21:24

Just to close out this one... (better late than never).

Never confirmed the reason for the dead transmission, but that's what it was - had to replace it.

To make matters worse, more recently the transmission on my '96 850 started slipping and eventually crapped out altogether (@ 135K miles). Replaced it too.