93 850 Oil pump leak... I'm out of ideas [SOLVED]

Post by **cn90** » 03 Dec 2013, 20:42

The Green Gasket is basically there to keep the 2 halves together, this way there is no "internal leakage", reducing oil pressure to the engine. So even if the Green gasket is bad, you will not see "external leak" to the outside world.

The Black O-ring, make sure it is seated properly.

The Crank Seal: use a flash light to shine it all around to be sure the INNER lip is not bungled up.
I guess you can try another Volvo seal for $17 PN 6842273:
http://www.volvopartswebstore.com/showA ... bly=234417

Another choice is SKF 13945 ($12 at NAPA). The problem is how to find a socket deep enough to drive it in. Make sure you go very very slowly,a gentle tap at a time and constantly checking the INNER lip to be sure it is not bungled up (I replace my Front Exhaust CAM Seal and messed up the Inner Lip, that was how I learned LOL).

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 03 Dec 2013, 20:56

I'll check the inner lip again tomorrow. I drove it in with my fingers and a PVC pipe the size of the seal. The O-ring... It's around the pump. I'll remove the pump and make sure it's looking OK.

The part I don't understand is why it looks to leak both around the pump and in the center, implying all these basics were done wrong. I guess I just check everything tomorrow, and see if I can find a flaw.

Please keep chipping in ideas as they come up. I'll go to bed here soon, but will be checking throughout the day starting very early tomorrow morning. I need to get this figured out soon and you guys are all I've got. I used to have car buddies, but one I left behind when I moved from the Netherlands, and one moved to Australia with the airforce. What I'm saying is : I appreciate you taking the time to help me and share your thoughts and ideas.

Post by **jimmy57** » 03 Dec 2013, 21:01

How are you getting the seal over the square edge crank? The crankshat doesn't have the chamfered edge to assist the seal starting over that edge.
The Volvo special tool for that seal slides inside the seal and the seal is on the tool as it passes over edge. Then the tool is used to insert the seal until it is flush with face of oil pump. Then when the tool is removed the seal now touches crankshaft.
Is the oil seal lip folded outward after it is installed? (it shouldn't be)

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 03 Dec 2013, 21:11

Can you point me to this tool ? I was googling and couldn't find it and none of the DIY's I found mention it. I used my hands to slide it over and a PVC pipe to tap it back slowly and gradually.

Post by **jimmy57** » 03 Dec 2013, 23:22

http://www.etoolcart.com/kent-moore-pun ... 95455.aspx

shows the tool but I think this is the earlier metal one. It has been replaced by a plastic version and I know its part number is different.

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 04 Dec 2013, 08:59

From reviewing that tool, I also found some homemade options that I'll explore.
It's snowing here so I could not be any more miserable working outside.

I removed the oil pump and found that the seal was seated fine, but I looked in the back and the spring was not around the seal anymore. The O ring was apparently severed upon placing the pump as it was mostly fine but was missing a small portion. How do I make sure the O ring that is effectively a little too big fits before entry.

Post by **cn90** » 04 Dec 2013, 09:36

M4rinus,

Just an aside, you are a persistent person and your thought process is very logical, which I like to see more in the forum. Not to mention your English is very good, for a change...LOL.

OK, back to business...

1. Without the tool that jimmy57 mentioned, you can get around it by: wrapping black electrical tape around the Crank Splines, from IN to OUT with some overlap (very much like your house roof shingles overlapping). This way when you slide the new seal in:
a. It slides over the tape
b. It is not damaged by the sharp edges of the splines.

2. Again, grease/oil the bore side and shaft side prior to installation. I think your PVC Pipe technique is fine too but:
a. Go very very slowly, a tap on the PVC Pipe at a time, constantly checking the Inner Lip to be sure it is not folded over.
b. Use your fingernail or something to smooth it out during installation.

: Seal01.JPG (116.79 KiB) Viewed 2187 times

3. FYI, virtually every seal has a GARTER SPRING, look carefully and you will see it. The GARTER SPRING constricts on the Inner Lip to keep the seal tight around the crank shaft. I am attching a generic photo from SKF so you can see the GARTER SPRING.

This should do it...

: Seal02.JPG (49.04 KiB) Viewed 2187 times

Post by **cn90** » 04 Dec 2013, 09:42

M4rinus wrote:...I removed the oil pump and found that the seal was seated fine, but I looked in the back and the spring was not around the seal anymore. The O ring was apparently severed upon placing the pump as it was mostly fine but was missing a small portion. How do I make sure the O ring that is effectively a little too big fits before entry.

1. So you lost the Garter Spring, it is a mystery...

2. The Black O-ring, get a new one from dealer and use grease to attach it in place during installation.
I'd avoid any RTV caulk here.

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 05 Dec 2013, 10:15

Thanks for all the ideas guys! I appreciate it.

The spring isn't gone. It just wasn't inside the seal anymore. It was behind it.
I ordered a new oil pump gasket kit from FCP. It includes a new OEM seal, O ring and gasket.
I also ordered an extra O ring just in case.... hopefully this time it will work out as planned.

I will be back to keep you posted early next week.
As for now ... there isn't anything I can do but wait for the part.

M4rinus · Post by **M4rinus** » 05 Dec 2013, 20:14

Good news : The parts will arrive tomorrow. FCP Euro upgraded my shipping at no extra charge to 1 day, because they didn't ship it yesterday with the 2day shipping I paid for.

I'm excited and nervous to see how it will work out this time. 4th time is the charm right ?

So in summary : I hope that I made the following mistakes :
1) Didn't tighten the pump enough / pump wasn't far enough back -> Caused a leak
2) Tightened it down (too much) > bolt broke off = removed pump > replaced bolts > Didn't check the inner lip of the crank seal -> Caused a leak
3) Replaced the crank seal : but the spring came off the seal + the new O ring was severed on reinsertion of the pump -> Caused a leak

Because if I did make those mistakes at least I understand why it leaked, which means that if I can just catch a break and do it all right at once, this should be under control.

One thing I still worry about (more than the other things):
The O ring (OEM Volvo) was a bit larger than the pump, which is why it was severed.
How do I make sure it won't get severed again ? (although I did order an extra one just in case)

I just really don't want to rebuild the timing AGAIN after this last time.
This needs to be IT or I might start losing my mind.

93 850 Oil pump leak... I'm out of ideas [SOLVED]

Re: 93 850 Oil pump leak... I'm out of ideas