Buyers Advice P2 vs P3

[JRL]

Slow as s**t, the 2011s were reprogrammed big time
Burn oil
Many engine rebuilds at my dealer

[vtl]

Slow as s**t, the 2011s were reprogrammed big time

Are you talking about 3.2 N/A engines? Or 3.0T too?

[JRL]

Turbos are not slow but otherwise they have the same internal engine issues
Very few T6s sold and for sale until 2011-2012 models

[vtl]

Turbos are not slow but otherwise they have the same internal engine issues
Very few T6s sold and for sale until 2011-2012 models

But then it's a common issue with N/A engines: they feel slow if you drive a BIG turbo. V70 with 2.4 N/A was like a space rocket compared to 1.4 3-cylinder turbodiesel Volkswagen I had before

[JRL]

No, the early 6s WERE/ARE very slow and sluggish
No bottom end

[mecheng]

interesting to learn about the 3.0L, thanks for the input. We ended up spending the money on a hot tub instead; such a great way to sooth sore muscles and enjoy the outdoors. I fixed the oil cooler lines in my S70 and put the repairs in perspective, even though replacing them was painful and frustrating it is a good learning experience.

If I'm looking, I will go P2 or maybe 2011+S60 off lease, for now I'm happy and want to pay off the house.

[mrbrian200]

Volvo guys have a lot of disdain for Ford, not sure if it's warranted

We all at some point got hold of one of the early Taurus things and never got over it. Or a Tempo. Or a Focus (long term Focus owners inevitably end up replacing the "o" with a "u" before running from Ford products for the rest of their life) We all said never again. We all know someone with a relatively low mileage well maintained Ford current or recent that experienced catastrophic engine or transmission failure...just after the warranty expired. But then there are probably a lot of P2-T6 former Volvo owners that think the same thing about Volvo.

[mecheng]

Volvo guys have a lot of disdain for Ford, not sure if it's warranted

We all at some point got hold of one of the early Taurus things and never got over it. Or a Tempo. Or a Focus (long term Focus owners inevitably end up replacing the "o" with a "u" before running from Ford products for the rest of their life) We all said never again. We all know someone with a relatively low mileage well maintained Ford current or recent that experienced catastrophic engine or transmission failure...just after the warranty expired. But then there are probably a lot of P2-T6 former Volvo owners that think the same thing about Volvo.

I have no fondness for Ford but some of the poor decisions/designs Volvo made/used were before Ford's input: crappy drive by wire, crappy 5 speed autos, fragile AWD, over complicated PCV. I think Geely is doing okay with them for now by for the most part letting them be, but I fear their master plan is to source all production in China and that means the component manufacturing as well and that will be a hell of a lot worst than what Ford ever did. It is one thing to assemble, it is a completely different thing to make precision components with high quality steel (Chinese steel is still recycled junk with lots of impurities). They have started with the long wheel base S60, it is made in China.

As for Ford, the new Focus is amazing. I suspect most of it is designed in Germany, and it shows. It drives amazing, and the turbo is great. I also love the look of the F150; so I think they have turned a new leaf.

[vtl]

I have no fondness for Ford but some of the poor decisions/designs Volvo made/used were before Ford's input: crappy drive by wire,

Please explain?

crappy 5 speed autos,

Made by Toyota-owned company. It's not crappy. First couple of years it had design problems, but, hey, welcome to automotive engineering!

fragile AWD,

Again, what's wrong with it? The sleeve was reinforced, bevel gear lasts more than a decade even with leaks, Haldex dies in a decade too, read diff is almost indestructible. What is fragile here?

over complicated PCV.

Simple one circuit scheme and oil separator and heated PTC in N/A engines. Two circuits in turbo. What you think is unnecessary in this system?

I think Geely is doing okay with them for now by for the most part letting them be, but I fear their master plan is to source all production in China and that means the component manufacturing as well and that will be a hell of a lot worst than what Ford ever did. It is one thing to assemble, it is a completely different thing to make precision components with high quality steel (Chinese steel is still recycled junk with lots of impurities). They have started with the long wheel base S60, it is made in China.

Actually Geely's owner forces Volvo to make BMW 7-series.

Long wheel base is a local Chinese "feature", all major foreign brands sell them in China.

As for Ford, the new Focus is amazing. I suspect most of it is designed in Germany, and it shows. It drives amazing, and the turbo is great. I also love the look of the F150; so I think they have turned a new leaf.

Yes, very good car. A colleague bought it last November, at 3k miles already had transmission inspected by the dealer, next visit will be a new transmission. Wonderful car.

[mecheng]

I have no fondness for Ford but some of the poor decisions/designs Volvo made/used were before Ford's input: crappy drive by wire,

Please explain?

Ford bought Volvo in 1999, the problems with the S70/850 while nothing too major are not from the merger as some ppl would imagine as soon as Ford took over ppl think they mandated the ETM, which is not true, it was in the works for a while. Yes it was supplied by Italian MM but ownership is always with the OEM to do the proper qualification testing

crappy 5 speed autos,

Made by Toyota-owned company. It's not crappy. First couple of years it had design problems, but, hey, welcome to automotive engineering!

Once again, the ownership is with the OEM to properly qualify their Tier 2 products.

fragile AWD,

Again, what's wrong with it? The sleeve was reinforced, bevel gear lasts more than a decade even with leaks, Haldex dies in a decade too, read diff is almost indestructible. What is fragile here?

Compared to a simple Subaru which is bullet proof.. How many Volvo ppl disconnect their AWD, on the P80, I would say its +75%

over complicated PCV.

Simple one circuit scheme and oil separator and heated PTC in N/A engines. Two circuits in turbo. What you think is unnecessary in this system?

Total time to replace PCV valve in any of my Hondas: 1 minute, remove PCV valve from hose which is on top of valve cover and replace. The Volvo PCV in P80s is not very accessible (you have to remove the intake manifold using woble sockets) and it is prone to clogging due to non heated circuit.

I think Geely is doing okay with them for now by for the most part letting them be, but I fear their master plan is to source all production in China and that means the component manufacturing as well and that will be a hell of a lot worst than what Ford ever did. It is one thing to assemble, it is a completely different thing to make precision components with high quality steel (Chinese steel is still recycled junk with lots of impurities). They have started with the long wheel base S60, it is made in China.

Actually Geely's owner forces Volvo to make BMW 7-series.
Long wheel base is a local Chinese "feature", all major foreign brands sell them in China.

I will never buy a car Made in China, never. A lot of ppl share my opinion. Just like I'd never buy a German car which is made in Mexico (VW for example). China can keep their Chauffeur version for their domestic market, that would be great.
Geely is just the money man, their cars are complete garbage, go watch one of their cars in a crash test. The are obviously copying the design and engineering used in the Volvo to make their cars better so they can export them. Instead of espionage which is used by the govt they are doing it by buying out international companies.

As for Ford, the new Focus is amazing. I suspect most of it is designed in Germany, and it shows. It drives amazing, and the turbo is great. I also love the look of the F150; so I think they have turned a new leaf.

Yes, very good car. A colleague bought it last November, at 3k miles already had transmission inspected by the dealer, next visit will be a new transmission. Wonderful car.

Auto trans or manual?