850 oil pressure issues, no oil in valvetrain

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 02 Jan 2006, 10:19

I mentioned earlier that I have essentially the same intermittant problem which has no consistancy to it at all - sometimes that light won't stay off, and other times it never comes on. I replaced the pump & it made very little difference (if any) save that money. You may have some solid sludge thats migrating around inside & occationally working itself loose before getting trapped somewhere else - that's the theory with mine. Although it didn't work for me, there is a engine flush process out there that supposedly brings back motors with ZERO pressure - it's called enginewity - or at least, that's the machine's name & supposedly a number of GM stores bought this thing. They hook the car up as a closed loop - adapters on the filter & drain plug housings - and run solvents through the motor under pressure through an external filter until they achieve a certain pressure. Like I said, I spoke to people who had this done & they swore by it. Lucky for me, I'm the first guy who didn't have success with it, figures, but I would suggest that you try something like that next. Forget the solution in a bottle - wast of money. Robinair also makes a machine similar & I understand that VW & Saab have similar, common issues with this & maybe those dealers or specialty shops might have a solution for you out your way......I paid $350.00 (CDN) for my unsuccessful attempt, so it's not the cheapest, but better cheaper than the alternative pump change. STILL, put a manual gauge on car & see what you've actually got coming out of that pump - that test is free.

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 03 Jan 2006, 15:52

Thanks saltydog. I've called locally and found no shop that does the engeinewity cleaning. I tried to find enginewity online, but kept going to a page that offered the domain name for sale. Perhaps they've changed their name or are no longer around.
But I did run across a service manager in town who worked for a volvo dealership until about five years ago. Here's what he suggested: Have an oil pressure test done (as you've suggested salty) to see if the pump is pumping. If it is, then the one and only oilway to the valvetrain is clogged. He said that every dealership or shop he has worked for, instead of using something like the enginewity process, will drain the oil, change the filter, then fill to normal level with ATF. They let the car idle for 15-30 minutes with the ATF in there instead of motor oil, and that the detergents in ATF are much better than any other cleaner for removing sludge and blockage. Comments? This is not a shop who stands to benefit if I need an engine rebuild, so I don't know why he would be blowing smoke.
Another question, that I didn't think to ask him, so I will ask here: If I have a shop perform a pressure check, does this tie into the system at the pump output? In other words, I know I have no pressure up high in the engine, does the pressure check happen before the valvetrain, and before the sending unit for the light? Both of those babies are screaming that there is no pressure, so does a check tell me what is happening at the pump itself?.
Let me know what you think, anybody. Thanks, Greg

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 04 Jan 2006, 12:16

Here's some new info. I drained the oil today to start preparing for removal of the pan again so I can check the O-rings and make sure they are all in place; especially the two that fit on the underside of the engine and are hanging there as the pan is reinstalled. When I pulled the filter off, it was bone dry, as if never out of the box (except for the oil I put on the seal). After reinstalling the pan, I probably ran the engine a good 10-15 seconds, maybe a few more, but surely long enough for oil to reach the filter. Right?
So, I'm hoping this is a sure sign that one or both of those O-rings fell or moved during reinstallation of the pan. They seem to be located right above where the filter goes on the pan if I recall correctly. Is the filter the last thing the oil goes through before returning to the pan? The first thing out of the pan? It has to come after the pump at least, right? Maybe my pickup tube isn't picking up (perhaps because my pump isn't pumping)?
Ideas?
Sorry to bore you all with this, but it's now a challenge, and maybe my trial and error will help another down the line. It's a 100 plus-mile tow to the nearest shop that I'm comfortable with, so I am trying to eliminate all the factors that I can before taking that step. And I want to know as much as possible about this issue. Thanks to this forum for the help!
Greg

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 04 Jan 2006, 20:20

Test the pump...I suspect the pump aint pumpin'

weeblebiker · Post by **weeblebiker** » 04 Jan 2006, 20:38

so let me get this straight.
you did not try another oil filter first????
you changed one variable and a problem occured and you didn't address this variable first???
and by a good filter mobile or K&N they have the check valve and a good bypass system in the filter.

oh and change the filter and see what happens

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 04 Jan 2006, 21:20

Thanks weeblebiker. I am now on my third filter. The one that came with the car was a Bosch, the two I have installed are from Volvo, OEM, say Volvo on them. The Volvo dealer told me they are made by Purolater, which I've been told is the same manufacturer of BMW, Mercedes and Saab filters. I felt okay about the OEM filters, not sure how a filter would keep oil out of my top end just yet. But thanks for the info.

White850Turbo · Post by **White850Turbo** » 05 Jan 2006, 08:22

GregO wrote:Thanks weeblebiker. I am now on my third filter. The one that came with the car was a Bosch, the two I have installed are from Volvo, OEM, say Volvo on them. The Volvo dealer told me they are made by Purolater, which I've been told is the same manufacturer of BMW, Mercedes and Saab filters. I felt okay about the OEM filters, not sure how a filter would keep oil out of my top end just yet. But thanks for the info.

OEM filters are made by Mann and they are considered to be the best filters you can buy for these cars. It seems that you've eliminated all other possibilities, leaving only a faulty oil pump. Your keeping us updated is much appreciated and I'm sure it'll help someone down the road having the same issues that you are now.

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 06 Jan 2006, 09:19

Thanks Sean. As I said, it's now a challenge to get to the bottom of it, and if that helps the next guy that's great as this forum has helped me a bunch already, thanks.
Anyone out there have a flow diagram of the oil in the engine?
thanks, Greg

White850Turbo · Post by **White850Turbo** » 06 Jan 2006, 10:51

GregO wrote: Anyone out there have a flow diagram of the oil in the engine?
thanks, Greg

Of course

.

Oil System Diagram

I have a very high resolution version of it too if you should need it.

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 06 Jan 2006, 12:20

Sean, thank you very much for the diagram! If it's not too inconvenient to send along the high res image, that would be very helpful. Based on the info here, it looks more and more like my oil pump may be the problem as the oil must pass through it before the filter, and since my new filter was dry after running the engine for a bit, that seems logical. Although, because it's fairly easy and I need to do it anyway, I am going to still pull the pan and check those O-rings. Who knows, perhaps one of them fell and fully blocked the passageway to the pump from the pan. I'm not feeling so lucky, but I gotta try it.
Thanks again Sean, you've been invaluable help.
Greg