Volvo 2.5T AWD 2003 Automatic delay 3 to 4

[oragex]

So it doesn't seem related to the VVT. I don't have ideas, the first thing would be to have the codes read. The best would be to have the car inspected by someone knowledgeable (not easy to find)

[firstv70volvo]

Now what ....
After a really fun weekend geting the solenoids out and rebuild them the car still has the same problem with flare changing from 3 to 4 gear.
Everything else is working perfect...

Possible to do a diagnos with VIDA ?
The software version now in my car is 30759777 AA can I get help from this forum and verify this is a up to date software?

You mentioned previously that you weren't able to get an OK during CMA with the 3-4 shift only. Have you tried to run through the CMA adapt again to see if you can get this particular 3-4 shift to show an adapted light flash? I'm wondering if there's a mechanical problem preventing this particular shift adapt to learn correctly.

During the 3-4 shift the 3rd brake band is released and the 4-5 clutch is engaged and from the video it looks like either the 3rd brake band releases a little early or the 4-5 clutch engagement is a little late; the timing is just not right for some reason. Could be mechanical/hydraulic and to help trouble shoot this I'd pay careful attention to other shifts that involve the 3rd brake band and 4-5 clutch. How are the 2-3 shifts and the 4-3 shifts downshifts? How about the 4-5 upshifts and 5-4 down shifts? If there was a 3rd brake band problem I would also expect shift quality problems with the 2-3 upshifts or 4-3 downshifts. If there was a problem with the 4-5 clutch pack I would expect potential shift quality problems 4-3 downshifts, 4-5 upshift or 5-4 downshifts. If all the these other shifts conditions are good and it's only the 3-4 shift having a problem I would try to do the CMA again.

[greffel]

Ok will try the CMA this weekend.

Did speak with a gearbox repair shop and they though it was strange it only showed this symptom from 3-4

But strange things can happen if some seal is leaking inside the valve body.

Can we agree this is a flare and not a slip. And that it should be fixed with a rebuild of the valve body

[greffel]

Home from 1,5h test drive trying to get a yellow triangle on every up and down shift.

As before every combination except 3-4 was successfull with the car i D mode.
This time I put the shifter in sport/manual and got a yellow triangle once.

So its possible to get the triangle but unfortunately the flare is still there.

[firstv70volvo]

Home from 1,5h test drive trying to get a yellow triangle on every up and down shift.

As before every combination except 3-4 was successfull with the car i D mode.
This time I put the shifter in sport/manual and got a yellow triangle once.

So its possible to get the triangle but unfortunately the flare is still there.

From what I've read about CMA is that it doesn't function in sport/manual mode, not sure if the triangle in this mode is valid but it's only what I've read.

The fact that you're not able to get a yellow triangle only with the 3-4 shift might mean an internal problem with the transmission and CMA mode just can't adapt enough to compensate for the problem. It sounds to me like the 4-5 clutch is the potential problem and possible causes could be badly worn frictions or a hydraulic related issue (leak, obstruction...) from the valve body to the 4-5 clutch. There is a 4-5 clutch (C3) pressure tap where you could check the pressure but you would have to route the hose and gauge in a way to view it while driving. If it were a hydraulic type problem though I would expect some differences in the flaring when the fluid is cold vs. when it's hot; are there any changes in the shift quality between cold and hot?
Because all the other shifts are good I don't think the problem is with the linear solenoids. The clutch piston fluid path to the 4-5 clutch is through the center of a shaft and then to a rotating drum with the 4-5 clutch inside the drum and this clutch is engaged in 4th and 5 gears. The 3rd gear band in on the outside of the drum and holds the drum when in 3rd gear with the 4-5 clutch disengaged. There are two sealing rings that seal the 4-5 clutch piston pressure between the shaft and the drum. Checking the pressure at the C3 tap during the 3-4 shift is my only suggestion at this point. From the transmission manual I have the C3 pressure should be between 73-89 psi at idle and between 248-287psi at max load.

[greffel]

Shift quality is the same cold or warm.

Is it possible to add some oil treatment to help if this is a friction problem.

Are there any electrical sensors that are worth checking ?

To change the gearbox or to rebuild it is not an option because I think that would cost more then half the car

When I cleared the adaptation data and started the re-learn process I got the same kind of flares 2-3 and 4-5 but after a bit they went away
Guess thats normal?

[vtl]

AW55 shits best with OE ATF (1161540). You can try adding Lubegard HFM, at risk of glazing the friction plates (don't go over than couple of oz).

Also removing B4 piston washer marked 2 have helped to a few folks with delayed 2-3 engagement. I did that mod about a year ago, no drawbacks yet.

[firstv70volvo]

Shift quality is the same cold or warm.

Is it possible to add some oil treatment to help if this is a friction problem.

Are there any electrical sensors that are worth checking ?

To change the gearbox or to rebuild it is not an option because I think that would cost more then half the car

When I cleared the adaptation data and started the re-learn process I got the same kind of flares 2-3 and 4-5 but after a bit they went away
Guess thats normal?

I have an old valve body that I replaced years ago and I used this old part to traced the fluid path and shift valve positions for the 3 to 4 shift. Since you've already done the linear solenoids and if you're up to going back into the valve body I can provide information and photos of the exact area and parts to look at. No guarantee the valve body is the problem but if rebuilding or replacing the transmission is not an option then checking the valve body carefully isn't a costly remaining option but does take labor and time.
For the 3-4 shift the S3 shift solenoid is turned off, which closes the solenoid and blocks drive fluid from exhausting through the solenoid. This builds pressure and moves the U2 shift valve from left to right, which opens a fluid pressure path that applies the C3 4-5 clutch. Things to check would be a very small opening in a plate between the valve body sections which is hole to the solenoid that supplies the drive fluid pressure. If there were any restriction in this opening then fluid pressure may be restricted and pressure build to move the U2 shift valve would be slow. There's also the S3 solenoid itself, if the closed solenoid is leaking some then fluid pressure build would also be slow or weak delaying the C3 clutch apply. If you're interested in doing this let me know and I'll supply photos and more details of what to check.
I attached a photo of the plate between the main body and front cover of the valve body, look for the smallest holes (not the ones circled) in the plate, these holes are the fluid pressure path to the solenoids and when the solenoids are closed fluid pressure builds to move the shift valves. One of the areas to check out.

[greffel]

If this is not the valve body than what could it be?
Right now with the time that I have available on weekends I can do a "transgo kit" or similar or change the complete valve body.

My valve body hade the letter B on it, what's the best (cheapest) place to get a new/refurbished unit ?

This whole thing drives me insane.... I'm tryning to think back when this all started ande if I did some other service och repair on the car and that it all started after that.
But just normal service and changed a leaking intercooler and had som problems with a vacuum switch.

Anin't it strange3 that it started one day and every singel time the car shifts it flares 3-4? Never a singel good shift.
If the problem had start wit a couple of bad shifts a month and then got worse it would make more sense.

[firstv70volvo]

If this is not the valve body than what could it be?
Right now with the time that I have available on weekends I can do a "transgo kit" or similar or change the complete valve body.

My valve body hade the letter B on it, what's the best (cheapest) place to get a new/refurbished unit ?

This whole thing drives me insane.... I'm tryning to think back when this all started ande if I did some other service och repair on the car and that it all started after that.
But just normal service and changed a leaking intercooler and had som problems with a vacuum switch.

Anin't it strange3 that it started one day and every singel time the car shifts it flares 3-4? Never a singel good shift.
If the problem had start wit a couple of bad shifts a month and then got worse it would make more sense.

If you do dig into the valve body you have several options. Because the problem is only with the 3-4 shift I don't think you have sticking linear solenoids or pressure/flow problems otherwise you'd have problems with other shifts.
The cheapest route money wise (not time) is to buy a gasket kit for the valve body and take it apart and check for any obvious problems. Sonnax has a zip kit that's looks like it addresses multiple possible leakage paths, which would fix pump pressure related problems but based on your single shift problem I'm not sure if this would help and it's over $200 for the kit.
There's also replacing the valve body with a brand new one for ~$500, this is the AC Delco part solution which is what I did with my car.
The 3-4 shift flare could be a problem other than the valve body though so spending any amount of money on the valve body may not fix the problem unless you do find an actual problem with the VB. Putting a pressure gauge on the B4 (3rd gear servo) and C3 (4-5 clutch) ports might help determine if there's a pressure apply/release problem with B4 or C3.
I've spent time studying how the valve body works out of general interest and having some extra time on my hands. The 3-4 shift is pretty straight forward; the S3 shift solenoid turns off which blocks fluid flow and creates pressure to move the U2 shift valve from left to right against spring pressure. When U2 is positioned to the right it exhausts fluid pressure from the B4 piston releasing 3rd gear brake band apply and routes line pressure to the C3 clutch which engages 4th. I've attached a photo of my old valve body with labels showing the U2 shift valve and spool valves for B4 and C3 (lower right of photo). The U2 shift valve is 2nd from bottom. I'm still working on the labels and can't guarantee this is all correct but if you do anything with the valve body I can help point out the path and parts associated with the 3-4 shift. I also have photos of the 4-5 clutch drum, B4 brake band if needed.