Volvo 2.5T AWD 2003 Automatic delay 3 to 4

[firstv70volvo]

So frustrating!!
The garage shifts now works nice but still a flare between 3 to 4.
Since its only 3-4 what could i be ?

I'm thinking the problem is with the 4-5 clutch(C3) and not the 3rd gear brake band(B4) or servo. If your 2-3 and 3-2 shifts are good then the 3rd gear brake band is applying and releasing as it should. During the 3-4 shift the 3rd gear brake band releases and the 4-5 clutch is applied. If the C3 clutch pack is badly worn or there's a leak in the fluid path that applies this clutch then this could cause a delay in the C3 engagement and the flare during the 3-4 shift.
The reason I mention a possible leak in the fluid path to the C3 clutch is because there are 3 sealing rings involved. The fluid path that applies the C3 clutch goes through the end of the shaft (sealing ring 1) and then up through the shaft to a rotating drum which contains the C3 clutch path and there two sealing rings between the shaft and drum. To help determine if it may be a problem with the apply pressure I mentioned a pressure check in an earlier post and the gauge set needed. The problem though will likely require the transmission to be opened up and repair/rebuilt.

You mention you did another adaptation and previously you're weren't able to get the 3-4 shift to adapt, did it adapt after the valve body replacement?

I've attached some photos of the C3 clutch and the shaft the it rotates on with the 4-5 clutch drum removed, you can see the two sealing rings on the shaft. The 4-5 clutch apply fluid is feed from the shaft up between the two sealings to the 4-5 clutch drum. This drum that contains the 4-5 clutch also has the 3rd gear brake band around the outside of it and when this 3rd gear brake band is applied it holds the drum stationary and sun gear for 3rd gear ratio and for 4th and 5th gear ratio the 3rd gear band released and the 4-5 clutch is applied.

[greffel]

I wish that I had your skills right now.
To answer your question, during adaptation all shifts where OK except 3-4.

The car have been driven with this problem for over a year now. Whats the worst that could happen?

Is it possible for a normally skilled person to repair the problem you are describing?

[firstv70volvo]

I wish that I had your skills right now.
To answer your question, during adaptation all shifts where OK except 3-4.

The car have been driven with this problem for over a year now. Whats the worst that could happen?

Is it possible for a normally skilled person to repair the problem you are describing?

I think what will eventually happen is the transmission will start slipping in 4 and 5th and you'll get a gear ratio error. This may not happen some time though so you could get a lot more miles out of the transmission.

It is possible for a normally skilled person to repair this problem but it does take a far amount of planning, close to a week timewise and it's a lot of work. I've never rebuilt a transmission before and I was able to do it so anybody with a decent set of tools and some skills can do this. There is a lot that could go wrong though so you have to be very careful, you don't want to have do this job over again.
If you do decide to do this I'll provide all my notes and photos of the job. I'll say this it's a ton of work but it was also one of the most satisfying car repairs I've ever done and best of all I saved my car from the salvage yard and didn't have to buy another car. You have the benefit of being able to drive your car and think about it and plan for it if you decide to do the repair, in my case my car barely moved on its own so I had to make a decision fairly quickly.
You have a new valve body in it so you have that going for you and I was in the same position, I didn't have to pay for or mess with the valve body since I had already replaced it 25K miles previously. I spent approximately $900 for rebuild kit and torque converter rebuild and another $300 on tools and misc items. I did start with a good set of tools including an engine support bar.

[vtl]

It is responsible for B4 drum/band engagement and causes the dreaded 2-3 flares/jolts in AW55. B4 also takes part in 3-4 and the reverse sequence: 4-3, 3-2. Small spring absent would be bad for B4 disengagement.

[vtl]

I spent approximately $900 for rebuild kit and torque converter rebuild and another $300 on tools and misc items. I did start with a good set of tools including an engine support bar.

Notes/photos/links would be really appreciated, for sure.

My AW55 w/ 220+k miles started to "tremble" lightly in 4th gear and recently in 5th as well, so I think I'll go with a rebuild. Have plenty of driveable cars left from pre-COVID times, so weeks of after hours hobby is not a big issue (besides that I'm amidst a house renovation =) ).

[firstv70volvo]

I spent approximately $900 for rebuild kit and torque converter rebuild and another $300 on tools and misc items. I did start with a good set of tools including an engine support bar.

Notes/photos/links would be really appreciated, for sure.

My AW55 w/ 220+k miles started to "tremble" lightly in 4th gear and recently in 5th as well, so I think I'll go with a rebuild. Have plenty of driveable cars left from pre-COVID times, so weeks of after hours hobby is not a big issue (besides that I'm amidst a house renovation =) ).

Right now I don't have everything organized so I'll post photos and notes in pieces and then pull everything together in one pdf.

To begin with I'll start with the removal of the transmission and tools needed. I found the challenge that took the most time and planning was suspending the engine without twisting when the subframe is removed. Ideally a four point type support bar would have helped because you want the engine just to hang from both engine brackets/hooks with no twisting but the engine support brackets are offset so a single bar like I have required some modifications (see photos). The goal is to get the support bar right over the support brackets so the chains hangs straight but the support bracket on the drivers side is between the engine and firewall and the passenger side bracket is between the engine and front of the car. I added a support bar piece to get directly over the passenger side engine support bracket.
There are different ways to support the weight of the transmission and get it out. You can use an engine hoist from above or a floor jack from below or in my case I used a drill powered hand winch from above. The transmission case has an eyelet on top you can attach a chain or strap to support the weight and it's pretty well balanced. The transmission weight is ~200 lbs.
I've attached photos of the basic setup and will provide more details later. I have many notes about what to detach from the subframe before lowering it and you can see from the photos I just used a jack with 2 X 6 support board to lower it down. I detached the steering rack from the subframe and supported it with straps.
You'll see from the photos I built a wood stand and used the hand winch to raise and lower the transmission once it was out of the car. This is optional but you do need to be able to position the transmission vertically and horizontally as you work on it and the hand winch allowed me to reposition the transmission as I worked on it but this can be done without the stand or winch.
I'll add more details but just wanted to give you an idea of what's needed in terms of tools and supplies that you'll likely not have to support the engine and remove the transmission. As you can imagine having an impact wrench isn't required though it's a big time and labor saver when dealing with the big suspension and subframe bolts.

Tools required, engine support bar, chains and bolts to suspend the engine, good floor jack and jack stands, 2 X 6 or equivalent long enough to support both sides of the subframe for lowering it, could also use two floor jacks. Engine hoist or transmission jack to support the weight of the transmission. You could probably use a regular floor jack but this wouldn't be as safe as trans jack.
It took me most of the day to remove the transmission, 2.5 days to rebuild it and a another day to install and put everything back together. Surprisingly there's not a lot of special tools needed to rebuild the transmission and I'll provide notes, photos and details about this later.

[vtl]

Oh yeah, removing the transmission is no problem. If that was the hardest part - I'm relieved

I have a 3-point support bar from ages ago and a cheap cherry picker from HF. Dropping the transmission for the rear main seal job was not hard.



The engine swayed away from the engine mounts and I had a hard time centering it + transmission back, but it turned out a 200 lbs man can lift a suspended yet 500 lbs engine/transmission combo from one side and relocate it closer to the mounts

I actually have a donor transmission sitting in the far corner of the garage for 4 years already. It's just a matter of starting and finishing the job, w/o making mistakes, as fixing them is prohibitively time&effort costly once the transmission is bolted back.

[firstv70volvo]

Oh yeah, removing the transmission is no problem. If that was the hardest part - I'm relieved

I have a 3-point support bar from ages ago and a cheap cherry picker from HF. Dropping the transmission for the rear main seal job was not hard.

The engine swayed away from the engine mounts and I had a hard time centering it + transmission back, but it turned out a 200 lbs man can lift a suspended yet 500 lbs engine/transmission combo from one side and relocate it closer to the mounts

I actually have a donor transmission sitting in the far corner of the garage for 4 years already. It's just a matter of starting and finishing the job, w/o making mistakes, as fixing them is prohibitively time&effort costly once the transmission is bolted back.

I wanted to start with the labor intensive and likely tools needed (to purchase) to also give Greffel a look at what to expect. If I don't scare you both off from this point I'll move onto the details of the transmission rebuild.


Here's a list of items needed and for the tools I listed the ones I didn't have and had to purchase for the transmission rebuild.

Rebuild manual
https://www.oregonperformancetransmissi ... 55-50.html
$60

Clutch spring compressor
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H8 ... UTF8&psc=1
$28

Screw type bar clamps
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-12-i ... /303177956
$20

Lock-ring horseshoe washer pliers
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020 ... UTF8&psc=1
$26

Bushing driver kit
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0773 ... UTF8&psc=1
$53

M8 thread chaser
https://www.amazon.com/Bolt-Thread-Chas ... ive&sr=1-4
$9

3rd Gear Band (if not in rebuild kit)
https://www.oregonperformancetransmissi ... 8714N.html
$73

Rebuild kit (the kit I used)
https://www.oregonperformancetransmissi ... SN-RB.html
$476

Bushing kit (2 possible sizes depending on input shaft size, for my AW55-50sn it was the larger diameter 0.873 inch shaft OD
https://www.oregonperformancetransmissi ... 8980N.html
$38

Torque Converter rebuild, I had it done locally at PDQ transmission parts

http://pdqparts.com/
$150

[vtl]

I wanted to start with the labor intensive and likely tools needed (to purchase) to also give Greffel a look at what to expect. If I don't scare you both off from this point I'll move onto the details of the transmission rebuild.

Not scared at all



Tools-wise I have most of everything.

Also these two links point to the same master kit:

Rebuild kit (the kit I used)
https://www.oregonperformancetransmissi ... SN-RB.html
$476

Bushing kit (2 possible sizes depending on input shaft size, for my AW55-50sn it was the larger diameter 0.873 inch shaft OD
https://www.oregonperformancetransmissi ... SN-RB.html
$38

[firstv70volvo]

I wanted to start with the labor intensive and likely tools needed (to purchase) to also give Greffel a look at what to expect. If I don't scare you both off from this point I'll move onto the details of the transmission rebuild.

Not scared at all

Tools-wise I have most of everything.

Also these two links point to the same master kit:

Rebuild kit (the kit I used)
https://www.oregonperformancetransmissi ... SN-RB.html
$476

Bushing kit (2 possible sizes depending on input shaft size, for my AW55-50sn it was the larger diameter 0.873 inch shaft OD
https://www.oregonperformancetransmissi ... SN-RB.html
$38

I corrected the link to bushing kit in the previous post. Measure the diameter of the input shaft as there are two possible sizes and determine the bushing kit you'll order, the larger diameter size is .873 and the small diameter is .843. The two AW55-50 and AW55-51SN transmission out of Volvos I've looked both had the .873 input shaft size but I don't know if all do.

For tear down Hiram here has done a good video, link below. He's a pro though so I will point out that you should be very careful bagging and labeling all the bolts and parts as you remove them. Take pictures, take a lot of pictures.
For example, the case covers you'll remove have several different bolt lengths some only different by a few MM. You don't want to mix up a 48MM bolt in a 45MM bolt position. You also don't want to put oil pump bolts in the bell housing cover bolt holes.
I measured and marked the bolt lengths as I removed them.
You'll also notice in the video, to separate the cases he gives a pretty good blow to the case to break the sealant. I didn't feel that comfortable hitting the case too hard so I used many repeated small hits until I could hear a change in the tone, which meant the sealant had broken free.




Marked bolt lengths as I removed them.

Here's the input shaft with the sun gear shaft on it, this is the shaft you'll measure OD to order the correct bushing kit. Note, the direct clutch/2nd gear sun gear shaft is much different between the 50SN and 51SN, shown is the 50SN. The 51SN is one piece shaft direct clutch and 2nd sun gear shaft using 2 bushings. The 50SN is a two piece direct clutch shaft and separate 2nd gear sun shaft using a total of 4 bushings.

If you order or have the type of universal (inexpensive) spring compressor I ordered then you'll have to use the spring compressor arms only and two bar clamps for the clutch packs that don't have a hole through them for the tool. For the forward clutch I had purchase the screw type bar clamps, the sliding ratchet type ones didn't provide enough compression for this one clutch pack.