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Falling out of love with my P80 Volvo...

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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Eddystone
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Falling out of love with my P80 Volvo...

Post by Eddystone »

A couple of weeks ago, I asked whether or not it was possible to get at the heater hose attachment points on the block from underneath the car. The universal response was go from the top. Remove this. Remove that. Pull this. Twist that. Easy peasy. Well, I did all that, and the last guy who changed the heater hoses had done it from underneath the car with stainless screw-type bands that can only be accessed from below coming in towards the front of the car over the transmission.

What an f'ing rats nest the trans side is on the '99 T5 2.3L engine! Of course, the intake side of the 2.3L engine is just as bad, and the timing belt area is as bad as all the other P80s. I guess I am getting too old to work on FWD Volvos because I simply don't have the patience to deal with an automobile design which gave no attention whatsoever to routine serviceability. And don't tell me about your 850 low pressure turbo or your V70 normally aspirated cars. I'm talking about this specific engine in this specific model year. The car is fast and refined and wonderful, but its a service nightmare compared to a '98 non-turbo, to say nothing of a '93 940.

Cars that are a nightmare to service are poorly designed.

But then, we know that Volvo almost certainly makes more money servicing these cars that they do selling them. I learned that working for General Electric Medical Systems where the service division was a completely separate profit center from the sales division. We always made more money fixing them than the sales and production people did selling them.
1998 V70 Non-Turbo/Auto The Perfect Driving Appliance
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1999 S70 T5 Turbo/Auto which is better than Abscate's T5
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Post by scot850 »

Ouch! Can I mention AWD P80's??? Too soon?

I can totally sympathize with you on this. I constantly curse Volvo designers and their lack of thought on servicing vehicles. 2 weeks ago it was access for the RH engine mount under the crank pulley where the engine and RH drive axle get in the way of easy access.

I am in the 'getting too old and wide' zone. That is why I am still hoping that the 2 post hoist will eventually get installed. Still waiting for a dry day but all we are getting is rain in the forecast except weekends!

Hopefully you get this sorted before your trip to the west! Worst case is we may have to tackle this together! :lol:

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
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Eddystone
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Post by Eddystone »

scot850 wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 10:26
Hopefully you get this sorted before your trip to the west! Worst case is we may have to tackle this together! :lol:

Neil.
Thanks, Neil.
1998 V70 Non-Turbo/Auto The Perfect Driving Appliance
1993 945 Turbo/Auto Pickemup Truck that Will Not Die. New 960 seats!
1999 S70 T5 Turbo/Auto which is better than Abscate's T5
All U.S. market models.
All running and on the road.
PM me if you are in Ohio. I'm in Lorain.

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Post by abscate »

Yes, on the 1999 you have to knock down the motor mount and the brace to service stuff on the trans side.
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Eddystone
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Post by Eddystone »

Well, those heater hoses are not leaking now, feel pretty good, and are Volvo - - - and are not the originals judging by the clamps, so, for now they stay.

I did replace about four different vacuum hoses that looked pretty bad.

I also replaced a fairly new lower radiator hose with a brand new one I had. The other one will be a spare on my trip, along with the new heater hoses.
1998 V70 Non-Turbo/Auto The Perfect Driving Appliance
1993 945 Turbo/Auto Pickemup Truck that Will Not Die. New 960 seats!
1999 S70 T5 Turbo/Auto which is better than Abscate's T5
All U.S. market models.
All running and on the road.
PM me if you are in Ohio. I'm in Lorain.

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Post by abscate »

I don’t think we have ever seen heater hoses fail except from abrasion or chafe. I’ve replaced two setson pm cars and donated the used ones that are still in service
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S Carlson
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Post by S Carlson »

I was just thinking about this - I just did the heater core on the '98 and it was no fun, my knees and elbows hurt! It got me thinking about what the "pain points" are on the cooling system, so I can change them out preventatively when I do the water pump and change out the coolant when I do the timing belt. Seems like that plastic junction block at the firewall needs to go, for sure. Expansion tank, yeah mine's a little cracked but not leaking yet. Expansion tank hoses? Maybe the radiator hoses too, because they are cheap. Thermostat if I can find a good one these days.

What else should I replace preventatively? Whole radiator (as long as I do the oil cooler lines in the process)? O-rings anywhere to or from the turbo?

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Post by Eddystone »

S Carlson wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 10:12 What else should I replace preventatively? Whole radiator (as long as I do the oil cooler lines in the process)? O-rings anywhere to or from the turbo?
Another one heading down my rabbit hole!!!

I've done two heater cores. The first one is tough. The second one seems easy. Everything is relative.

I don't actually find the junction at the firewall or the funny system with the clips and o-rings to be worrisome.

When I got my first P80, the main thing I focused on were all the dire warnings about any break in the coolant system meaning almost instantaneous engine destruction. Hence, my concern about replacing what seem to be sound heater hoses. I'm trying to temper my obsession with these things by considering all the things you can do to mess up a good thing while disassembling problem-free areas to gain access to some hose. How many new problems might I cause?

I think there is a balance to maintain.

If you've recently replaced the coolant, it will come out clean and can simply be recycled. Doing every single hose at one drain is a lot more work and time than it might seem to be.

It does seem to me that the timing belt (and water pump while you are in there, usually) is the most important thing to stay ahead of. Skipping the water pump would make the timing belt job a lot quicker and easier, but most of us have cars that might last have been serviced at an unknown time and with parts of unknown quality replaced by someone of unknown competence or carefulness. That drives the desire to have replaced everything yourself, but that gets to be a big job best accomplished over time.

I don't know how new you are at this, but I think the most important advice I can give you is to NEVER use Uro rubber parts or ANY Uro parts, for that matter. You mentioned hoses being cheap. Make sure you get decent quality hoses, not necessarily Volvo OEM but at least name brand. I also avoid ANY part containing Chinese rubber which seems to ALWAYS be of poor quality. I have no problem with the quality of many Chinese-manufactured items (including guitars) but would stay away from their rubber and also brake rotors where material quality must be consistent throughout the piece.

Well, that's my ten or twelve cents.

I'm over my meltdown of the other day. ;-)
1998 V70 Non-Turbo/Auto The Perfect Driving Appliance
1993 945 Turbo/Auto Pickemup Truck that Will Not Die. New 960 seats!
1999 S70 T5 Turbo/Auto which is better than Abscate's T5
All U.S. market models.
All running and on the road.
PM me if you are in Ohio. I'm in Lorain.

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Post by abscate »

I’ve put Rein hoses in cars on budgets and pass on my opinion that they are 5-10 year hoses. They are definitely not as good rubber as OEM Volvo but they are good.

Unlike BMW we don’t have to refresh the whole f* cooling group every 100k

My ladies cars all have new Volvo cooling group on the PM cars , and the RTf cars get Volvo parts as needed
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Post by MrAl »

abscate wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 06:30 I’ve put Rein hoses in cars on budgets and pass on my opinion that they are 5-10 year hoses. They are definitely not as good rubber as OEM Volvo but they are good.

Unlike BMW we don’t have to refresh the whole f* cooling group every 100k

My ladies cars all have new Volvo cooling group on the PM cars , and the RTf cars get Volvo parts as needed
Hello again,

What i was wondering is, did you ever try or use silicone hoses for anything on the car(s)?
I ask because they are usually very durable and take high heat and you can get them in many sizes and wall thicknesses.

Yeah these cars can be very frustrating sometimes i know that first hand.
I’ve been driving a Volvo long before anyone ever paid me to drive one.
1998 v70 on the road since April 2nd, 2015

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