Water pump 3 broken bolts

jsrnsis · Post by **jsrnsis** » 31 Oct 2023, 13:08

While waiting for parts for my XC, I decided to do the timing belt job on my sister's 98 NA. I had no service history to know when it was done last, and I figured I might as well do it for peace of mind. Now after starting it I want to give the mechanic who did the last timing belt a piece of my mind.

They used an AutoZone duralast water pump, which used the same length bolts as the OEM Volvo pump, but the bokts they used were definitely lower quality, no stampints in the head. Anyways, 3 of them snapped off nearly flush with the block, without any of the normal twisting until failure, and only using a regular length 3/8 drive ratchet. Once the first bolt broke it was already leaking coolant so I figured might as well go ahead. Looking at the bolts that did come out, the threads were rusty all the way down, which I haven't seen in my last two water pump replacements. The pump was also stuck so tight to the block I needed to break it loose with a dead blow hammer and long extensions.

One in the top right broke, and both in the bottom left, on either side of the locating pin, are broken as well. I broke a bolt on my 94 when I re-used the Volvo bolts, bottomed one out, and snapped it with the torque wrench. The results of attempting to drill and burr it out with a right angle adapter went horribly, but thankfully a little RTV was all I needed.

TL,DR: I broke 3 water pump bolts on the removal, is there any way to jack the engine up so I can get straight-on access to these bolts for attempting to drill and dremel them out? I don't have the room, equipment, or time to do a full subframe drop or pull the engine out from the top.

Post by **Clemens** » 31 Oct 2023, 14:44

how far do you need to jack it up?

if you loosen all 3 motor mounts and the upper and lower torque brace you can lift the engine up quite a bit.

Post by **scot850** » 31 Oct 2023, 15:54

I wrote something up on this recently when I did the pump on my friends 96 850 NA. I pointed out which bolts you have to watch out for as the 3? on the right can all bottom out. As Aisin pump flanges are no thinner than they used to be, you have to make sure the bolts you use as the correct ones. Note: the Aisin pump did not supply any bolts.

On the 850, all the other bolts were accessible from the rear of the bolt holes as the holes pass all the way through. Those may give better access for drilling out purposes.

viewtopic.php?p=626299&hilit=water+pump#p626299

Neil.

Post by **abscate** » 31 Oct 2023, 16:21

Is it crazy to consider drilling through the frame member for this?

jsrnsis · Post by **jsrnsis** » 31 Oct 2023, 18:12

abscate wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023, 16:21 Is it crazy to consider drilling through the frame member for this?

I have a feeling I might come back in the garage in the next few days to find my dad has the bolts out, and a hole-saw equipped drill suspiciously close by. The rest of the body of the car is so nice though. If it was a rust bucket it would be easier.

Clemens wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023, 14:44 how far do you need to jack it up?

if you loosen all 3 motor mounts and the upper and lower torque brace you can lift the engine up quite a bit.

I got it up a good amount with just the "front" engine mount (under crank) undone, but the front of the engine would need to be raised up at least 4 inches from that point to get direct access. That's from memory, it might be even more.

scot850 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023, 15:54 I wrote something up on this recently when I did the pump on my friends 96 850 NA. I pointed out which bolts you have to watch out for as the 3? on the right can all bottom out. As Aisin pump flanges are now thinner than they used to be, you have to make sure the bolts you use as the correct ones. Note: the Aisin pump did not supply any bolts.

On the 850, all the other bolts were accessible from the rear of the bolt holes as the holes pass all the way through. Those may give better access for drilling out purposes.

viewtopic.php?p=626299&hilit=water+pump#p626299

Neil.

The HEPU pump I bought for this came with the new, shorter bolts, but the previous owners had installed a pump with the original thickness flanges, using bolts that were original aisin pump length, but were low quality. They might have even been too long and bottomed out very slightly and were weakened by being torqued down, had been reused and previously hit with a torch, I'm just not sure.

I was using only a 7" ratchet, and the bolts just snapped, no warning, no signs of impending doom, just a crack. I've broken quite a few bolts, and usually there is a period of it seeming to get easier, followed with the head simply twisting off. These broke violently and tossed the ratchet right out of my hand. Something just didn't seem "right". And after I broke the first one, coolant was already leaking out of the pump, so there was no going back.

Post by **scot850** » 31 Oct 2023, 22:55

I'm sorry to hear that. It is likely as you say if they used the long bolts where short ones should have been used then this will be an issue. Even on the holes that go all the way through, the threads do not go all the way through so an over long bolt would shear there too.

Neil.

Post by **Clemens** » 01 Nov 2023, 02:30

I think 4 inches should be doable with the hydraulic motor mounts and the torque braces undone.
When I did my hydraulic motor mounts I had the engine jacked up uncomfortably high to get the one close to the firewall out.

Post by **abscate** » 01 Nov 2023, 04:03

When you buy the OE Volvo pump you get the bolts included. The money saved on the cheap pump gets sent to Feklar for repairing this mess. I think there is a lesson here for all of us.

Post by **scot850** » 01 Nov 2023, 08:29

If you are going to raise the engine that amount. you have to disconnect the axles or you will damage them! Volvo say to not raise the engine more the I believe 25-30mm when fitting the rear mount for that reason.

Neil.

Post by **scot850** » 01 Nov 2023, 10:48

I looked at buying a new set of bolts from Volvo. and even the on-line Volvo dealers in Canada wanted $3.50/bolt CDN x 7 bolts, then as it is under $75 it has shipping on top of that! A Pump from the same dealer was $250 CDN but has free shipping.

So as per Abscate, there does not seem to be as much of a difference you would think. I recall we got the water pump (Aisin with gasket but no bolts) for around $110 CDN with free shipping. But then add the say $40 for bolts (website says <$40 including shipping) that is a saving of $100 CDN. So quite a decent saving. However, with FCP warranty, if you can utilize that, it is cheaper if you keep the car for a long time.

Having said that, you would need to keep the car for a further 200,000 miles or so until the next swap. At my rate that would be 200 years.......! (R has done 16,000km/10k miles in 11 years!!). Not sure I will be around to claim that next free pump!!

Neil.