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New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Discussion and advice for 440, 460, 480 owners.

1986 - 1997 440
1986 - 1997 460
1986 - 1997 480

nifton
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New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by nifton » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:36 am

Hi Guys,

Have been having a good look through your site, it's so much more informative than the other sites i can find which have loads of posts which no-one responds to!

Last Sunday I purchased a 1997 460 1.8 GS (pics to follow in the pics section) with 90'000 miles for the poultry sum of £475!!!!

She starts first time and as far as I can tell is good to run for years.

I'm finding that information on my model is pretty rare, so i hope i'm in the right forum section.
I'd like to know of any regular care points and things to look out for, and specificaly if anyone has any tips for halting the rust spread on the rear arches until i can afford to get it repaired professionaly.

I have to say, she's a glorious little runner, and i'm looking forward to running her for as long as she'll carry me :)

Regards, Tom

PS, if anyone has an old Haynes and Volvo manual they wish to sell then please PM me!



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billofdurham
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Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by billofdurham » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:44 pm

Tom, welcome to Matthew's Volvo Site.

We aim to answer as many questions as possible but, in the main, we aren't mechanics. We rely on our own experiences and access to the right books.

eBay UK has some Haynes manuals at the moment. Some are only up to 1992 but some do go to 1997. Also on eBay you will find the Volvo Aftersales Diagnostic and Information System (VADIS) discs. These are two DVDs with parts information and some service information on one and wiring diagrams on the other. VADIS is not as comprehensive as the Haynes manual for the 440 but it does contain a fair amount of repair information. This is one example. No, I am not selling it nor do I get commission!!!

N.B. Don't go for the one advertised as "Volvo 440 Workshop Service Manual DVD 1988 - 1997". This is a copy of an old VADIS disc which requires you to reset the date on your computer to use it.

Bill.


Work was good - retirement is better.

1996 850GLT 2.5 20v Estate Manual.
1995 Peugeot Boxer 2.5Tdi Autosleeper.
Previously:
1984 244DL, Manual, Beige.
1987 744GLE, Manual, Green.
1991 960 3.0 24v, Auto, Silver.
1994 940T Wentworth, Auto, Blue.

nifton
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Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by nifton » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:28 am

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your reply, i'll get those on the Christamas list pronto!

My car is amazing, it's my first car legaly on the road, with my first being an Astra, and then a G reg micra, i'm hoping i can do it justice :)

I've done about 300 miles since i got her last Sunday, and so far, all i've noticed is the reluctance to stay running on a cold engine, it won't idle unless i've kept it at about 2000revs for a minute or so.
Was thinking it could be dirty injectors, is there a particular flush solution you can recommend?

Tom,

PS, love the picture, do you have any connection to that motor?



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Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by billofdurham » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:17 pm

Usually poor idle when cold is not the injectors. It is more likely to be one of the sensors that supply the Engine Control Unit (ECU) with data to keep the car running properly.

However, before going too deeply into that, your car is fitted with an On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) with which you can read any fault codes that the system may have stored. If fault codes are present then it is a good start for diagnosis. The Data Link Connector is mounted on the strut turret and looks like this:
DLC.jpg
DLC.jpg (18.49 KiB) Viewed 3076 times
The attachment tells you how to use this very handy tool.
460 OBD.pdf
(599.14 KiB) Downloaded 210 times
Give this a go and see if any codes are stored. Post back for help if you need it.

I am not a great believer in fuel system flushes as I have never found enough data to support the manufacturers' claims. Generally, UK petrol has enough additives to keep everything running smoothly. If the injectors are becoming clogged then you would have to run a lot of flush through to do any good. The only way to clean injectors is at a specialist shop.
PS, love the picture, do you have any connection to that motor?
I used to drive similar for a living.

Bill.


Work was good - retirement is better.

1996 850GLT 2.5 20v Estate Manual.
1995 Peugeot Boxer 2.5Tdi Autosleeper.
Previously:
1984 244DL, Manual, Beige.
1987 744GLE, Manual, Green.
1991 960 3.0 24v, Auto, Silver.
1994 940T Wentworth, Auto, Blue.

nifton
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nifton

Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by nifton » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:51 am

Hi Bill!

Sorry for the apparent desertion of this thread! I wanted to try my best to get it sorted rather than rely on you guys. That and I don't really use the internet that regularly.

I received my Haynes last Saturday, and have been giving her a tune up. So far:

Adjusted clutch pedal height and stroke, is like a new clutch entirely now.

Cleaned ABS front wheel sensor as after a power wash 2 weeks ago, ABS would activate (not lock, just press back against the brake pedal) at very slow speeds, if I was slowing down, I didn’t even have to touch the brakes sometimes.

Set the alarm using the OBD, someone had turned it to immobiliser only.

Coolant flush and replaced with volvo recommended fluids,

Oil top up,

Power steering bleed (was almost twice over its max limit! previous owner, not me!)

New wipers.

Full tank of Shell V-power and a bottle of Comma D-tox (the difference is noticeable, I can recommend to anyone if you feel stumbling, poor pick up on an old motor you don't know the history of, although, there's a good chance the crap has blown away naturally as she's not been used properly for 4 or 5 years).


One thing I noticed that on the front, top half of the engine block, just above the half way line, was a module with a two pin connector that had no cable running from it, and an ominous loose lead end from the ECU, the lead in question split into two connectors, and the smaller of the two was connected to another module embedded in the block, close to the first one, but closer toward the dist cap (again, just above halfway line). Cable of the unplugged lead was too short to reach, so I re-ran the lead over the dist cap joint, rather than the long way around, and it now reaches.
Do you know what the mystery sensor is? and should I have it plugged in? Haynes was sparse on info for this.

I'm still having the cold start issue, I could find a lot of info from people with exactly the same issue (starts fine, then idle dies after 3 or 4 seconds unless warm) pointing to the idle control valve sticking, however, am I right in thinking my engine (B18U) doesn't have one as it's single point? Because I cannot find one in my engine, and the Haynes is a tad vague around that area, could the issue be my coolant temp sensor?

In any case, I've cleared all codes from the ODB and am now only getting 123 returned, I heard on another forum that this code is 'infamous' but no explanation was given as to why it earned that status, I know that it relates to the coolant module, but is it a possible red herring?

If I knew which one was the CTS module, I have a multi meter ready to test its resistance, have found a part to replace it, I’m just missing the bit in-between :)

My first 3 weeks in a Volvo and i'm hooked, done almost 1.5k, which is more than she's done in the past 3 years! Saving up to take her to the body shop in Feb., get the rust sorted and have some marks touched up, then she'll be good as new!
The car in the pic, is that an old t5? i remember watching one of those at Donnington touring car one year when I was knee high :)

Thanks again! Tom



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Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by nifton » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:52 am

*update*

Bill, I found this diagram in another post you responded to, this is what i've been after all week!

http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... &mode=view

I can see that the trailing line, and the unconnected sensor are part for the knock sensor, am I correct in plugging it into the same split loom that carries the coolant temp sensor?

Off the back of that diagram, I'm going to order a Volvo ECT (CTS), unless you have advice to the contrary.

Thanks again! Tom



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Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by billofdurham » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:28 pm

You have certainly given the old beast a new lease of life.

The idle speed is computer controlled so there is no adjustment possible. My book advises testing for air leaks in the intake system and then component and electrical tests.

The code 1-2-3 is 'infamous' because it is so common. The ECT can affect all aspects of the engine running, or not running, from no start through poor performance to uneven running at all speeds.

There are quite a few possible causes for poor idle when cold. This list is not in the order of 'most likely' to 'least likely', it is just as it comes:

EVAP canister purge valve.
Engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor.
Intake air temperature (IAT) sensor.
Idle speed control (ISC) actuator.
Throttle position (TP) sensor.
Fuel pressure.
Engine control module (ECM)

The sensors can be tested with an ohmmeter/multimeter:
440 sensor tests.pdf
(1016.7 KiB) Downloaded 173 times
Test the ECT but I think you will find it is in need of replacement and hopefully a new one will cure the problem.

The car is a T5.

Bill.


Work was good - retirement is better.

1996 850GLT 2.5 20v Estate Manual.
1995 Peugeot Boxer 2.5Tdi Autosleeper.
Previously:
1984 244DL, Manual, Beige.
1987 744GLE, Manual, Green.
1991 960 3.0 24v, Auto, Silver.
1994 940T Wentworth, Auto, Blue.

nifton
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:52 am
Year and Model: 460 1997
Location: UK Sheffield
Has thanked: 0
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nifton

Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by nifton » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:31 pm

I just logged on to post my meter readings and saw your reply!
cold: 800
Needle moved onto temp guage: 640ish
Mid guage: 430 lowest reading

So yeah, looks like a new one will help, thanks for the chart, going to do all checks tomorrow night, as after plugging the knock sensor back in its started throwing 223 and 143 as well as 123. 223 could've been because the ECT has been unplugged i think.

Really good information, you set me right everytime! thanks :)



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Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by billofdurham » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:31 pm

As you are now getting 2-2-3 and 1-4-3 another test for your multimeter:
440 sensor tests2.pdf
(480.24 KiB) Downloaded 137 times
The knock sensor either works or it doesn't. There is no test with a meter. I suggest you take it off and clean the mating surfaces. When you tighten it you don't need a great deal of force, 17 newton meter = 12.5 pound foot.

Bill.


Work was good - retirement is better.

1996 850GLT 2.5 20v Estate Manual.
1995 Peugeot Boxer 2.5Tdi Autosleeper.
Previously:
1984 244DL, Manual, Beige.
1987 744GLE, Manual, Green.
1991 960 3.0 24v, Auto, Silver.
1994 940T Wentworth, Auto, Blue.

nifton
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:52 am
Year and Model: 460 1997
Location: UK Sheffield
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
nifton

Re: New 1997 460 GS owner saying hello with questions :)

Post by nifton » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:47 am

As it is now snowing in full force, i shall not be freezing my fingers off pressing that bloody OBD button this evening! Shame, as was looking foward to it.

I found a 440 b18U available for breaking, V tidy under bonnet, Have asked for ECT and electric aeriel harness, motor and mast. He's chucking the knock sensor in for free. £30! thought that was a good deal.

(thanks to P&R volvo parts, leeds)

Can you think of anything else that's worth grabbing from him before it goes to the crusher?

Can't wait until Saturday, sick of fiddling with her with a head torch on!



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