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Starting trouble post plug wire install Topic is solved

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by Paul-93-850 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:49 pm

Saying "Congrats for making it to high school" is a unprofessional comment for a respected moderator to make about a mechanic. That's the issue - not about LMS.



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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by BEJinFbk » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:50 pm

I would suggest that one need not be a professional to be well respected.
I know plenty of "professionals" that make little effort to earn any respect at all! :lol:


'98 V70 R - Well Equipped for Life Up North... ;)

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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by wizechatmgr » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:43 pm

Respect is something earned.

Not all professionals care about being sensitive nor can they necessarily afford to be in their fields. I for one am not. Why? That isn't their job, it isn't necessarily their field of expertise, and it isn't necessarily required. I'd much rather have an expert/senior/seasoned surgeon that has no bedside manner perform surgery on me than one that has no clue but an excellent bedside manner. Guess which one is going to give the better outcome?

When a sample size of 1 says something cannot happen because they haven't seen it in 30 years I wonder how they come about their logic. Folks skilled in their fields will almost never say the words impossible or never. Why? Almost anything is potentially possible. Not everything is probable. But just because we haven't seen something before doesn't mean it is impossible. Unlikely? Perhaps. Impossible? Not likely.

Just because one cannot see air doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It took centuries for that discovery to be made - while everyone was breathing it none-the-less =)

If you want to watch things really make people irrational and potentially nuts - see politics and religion... People are willing to kill one another over an idea. I plan on approaching neither on a respected forum such as this - it's kind of like posting the inflammatory WD40 vs Oil chain lube thread on a motorcycle forum...


Wisdom requires knowledge as a prerequisite, but knowledge can be developed due to a lack of wisdom.
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD - ~183k miles

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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by abscate » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:36 am

Folks skilled in their fields will almost never say the words impossible or never.
Experiential fallacy (" I've never seen this, therefore it isn't true") is an interesting one because the younger folks are usually smart enough to realise they still have stuff to see, older folks have seen more, so it's usually the hallmark of older folks who have lost young person mental flexibility.

On lawn mower syndrome, this is how the old folks get caught on this. I don't think it was a common thing on your grandad's carburetor Oldsmobile, which always gobbed excess gas into the car to start. I'm not sure why but I think modern engines are built to tighter tolerances and oil plays a larger role in sealing Pistons/cylinders? I actually worked on a project with Audi for micro cracking cylinder walls with a laser to create pockets for oil to reduce friction and wear.

It doesn't seem logical that a modern engine management system would flood an engine more than a carb, so there must be more going on. Until I read the testimonies here, I had never heard of it, but my 2002 VW ( Audi vr6 engine) did it once a year or so, but I didn't realise what it was. When my Bimmer did it one Thanksgiving, it was really pronounced how fast the engine spun.

We try to keep politics and religion out of MVS of course, plenty of other places to discuss that. I have to say on behalf of all the mods, this is the most civilized forum I frequent, and we thank all of you for that.


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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by erikv11 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:31 am

abscate wrote: ... Experiential fallacy (" I've never seen this, therefore it isn't true") is an interesting one because the younger folks are usually smart enough to realise they still have stuff to see, older folks have seen more, so it's usually the hallmark of older folks who have lost young person mental flexibility. ...
Don't forget experiential truthiness! We see that way too much: old folks who should know better but say "Oh I saw this once," or "here's how my car was," so will say "that's the way it is, the only way it is, the way it will always be ... " This kind of narrow, over-generalization can be just as hard to get people to recognize. It's just another side of the N = 1 problem.


'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 140k
'98 S70 NA, 210k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 280k
'06 S60 R, 160k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by scot850 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:58 am

I'm wondering if the famous LMS issue we experience could be something to do with where you live or gas type used or even driving type of long versus short trips. Maybe this issue is not seen or common i some areas for reasons we don't know. I've owned and repaired Volvos for over 40 years and I'm still learning. Spoke to the foreman at local dealer. He has been with Volvo since 1975 and he is aware of this issue. Interesting debate but just saying you've never seen something does not mean it doesn't exist. Loch Ness monster, Big Foot, aliens are examples of this as well as LMS with Volvos.

You guys make my day as I sit here with may leg in the air waiting to see the doctor for a badly sprained ankle after a spill on ice.

Neil


2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by wizechatmgr » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:17 pm

That mention of the possibility of the fuel being an issue - I think that could very well be a good part of it.

If we assume that the lack of oil is the cause, then if the fuel were somehow washing more oil off the walls and rings than usual then I guess that could be one possibility.

If we assume that carbon is causing it and that oil gives us just enough compression back and lubrication to cause the carbon to migrate than that too could be a possibility. Could fuel be the root cause or a contributing factor? Potentially.

If we assume the rings are indeed shot, then just adding a squirt of oil wouldn't last very long as the oil burns off quickly in the combustion chamber.

Or maybe a mix of all of the above?

If I had one doing this that wasn't my daily driver, I wouldn't mind tearing it down to see... Of course the ideal situation would be for this vehicle to have had the same issue previously.


Wisdom requires knowledge as a prerequisite, but knowledge can be developed due to a lack of wisdom.
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD - ~183k miles

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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by erikv11 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:58 pm

See especially the posts by jimmy57: viewtopic.php?t=61868


'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 140k
'98 S70 NA, 210k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 280k
'06 S60 R, 160k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by alschnertz » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:44 pm

Amazing.
After 10 years of Volvo "whiteblock" ownership, I finally had a case of LMS.

Admittedly, I was always skeptical of the diagnosis, but it was spot on.
Let it rest for 15-20 minutes with the battery charger on it (the batt. is on borrowed time as it is), cranked with the pedal to the floor and huzzah! It's alive again.


'60 PV544, '68 220, '70 145S, '86 745T, '95 854T, '01 S40
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Re: Starting trouble post plug wire install

Post by greg850r » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:18 pm

BEJinFbk wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:17 am
I know that I learn all manner of things from the positive,
constructive and helpful folks at MVS each and every day. :mrgreen:
What he said. Thanks to these Moderators (and the other users), I went from knowledge level zero to fixing anything and everything on Volvos. Oh, and LMS is very real and fairly common on these cars.

As to what causes it, I find it mostly tends to happen when I let one sit for a few months.


05 Cross Country wagon
99 C70 Convertible
96 850R wagon
96 850T wagon
96 850 GLT 5spd N/A sedan
97 850R 5spd sedan
66 GTO 421SD 4spd
67 GTO 455 T400
02 Powerstroke 4x4
85 Yota 4x4
24' 454 Challenger
07 Softail Custom
02 Sportster Custom
Parts cars not included

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