IPD sale XeMODeX - Experts in Volvo Electronics
Did you know? 🤔
Logged in users can get email notification of topic replies Log in or register (free).
Amazon Link Buy your stuff using this and it helps MVS!

Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's stylish, distinctive "P2" platform cars.

2001 - 2007 V70
2004 - 2007 V70 R
2001 - 2007 XC-70
2001 - 2009 S60
2003 - 2007 S60 R

XC70Rider
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:09 pm
Year and Model: 2007 XC70
Location: MA
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 17 times
United States of America
XC70Rider

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by XC70Rider » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:31 pm

Thanks for the details. I always presumed flares where RPM drops, not spikes. I knew it wasn't slipping because the RPM wasn't spiking.

To get the solenoids displayed on VIDA do I select them on TCM?
Last edited by XC70Rider on Thu May 02, 2019 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.



User avatar
vtl
Posts: 1588
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:35 pm
Year and Model: 2005 XC70
Location: Boston
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 35 times
United States of America
vtl

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by vtl » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:33 pm

Yes, TCM. SLU is ~200 mA when TC is unlocked, 500-700 - controlled partial slip, >900 when locked.


2005 XC70 260k
2016 XC60 40k

User avatar
SuperHerman
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:28 pm
Year and Model: 2004 & 2016 XC90
Location: Minnesota
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 114 times
United States of America
SuperHerman

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by SuperHerman » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:34 pm

Here are my thoughts - no fluid regardless of brand is exactly the same unless it comes from the same lot production run. Same brands/type are almost identical. Likewise for brands coming out of the same facility that are rebranded. After that brands utilizing the same formula are extremely similar. After that different brands different formula, but identified as compatible, are close enough to work.

All the rest of the stuff and testing here has the following issues: 1) Adaptations must be reset; 2) Fuzzy Logic for driving style must be identical (rather hard to accomplish); 3) Mileage wear difference has to be nominal; and 4) the rest of the transmission has to be 100% functional.

Changing transmission fluid and making comparisons when one has a solenoid issue that is causing the shift issues is of little evidence regarding transmission fluid types. Changing transmission fluid when the adaptations are not reset shows the same - repeat for fuzzy logic. The difference in mileage, hence wear, has to be minimal as that adds another factor.

I fully understand some "compatible" fluids are different in specs, some of this difference impacts the solenoids, but via the adaptations it can be compensated. Exact fluids new and used/aged have different properties - that is what the adaptation feature is designed to adjust. Going further, sometimes the transmission maker changes the recommended fluid during production. Meaning you go to the dealer and they will put in the newer "correct" fluid which is different than what was originally installed.

I have had excellent results with MaxLife, Toyota IV and Castro in my Volvos - but the transmissions were well sorted out before hand. Meaning the solenoids, valve body, B4 servo were serviced or in working condition when the final fluid assessment was made. Sure I have done drain and fills with no success, hoping the magic bullet would work - only to have to go in deeper.

Bottom line changing fluid will not fix a bad part - BUT IT MAY help clean out some gunk which results in the needed fix.



User avatar
vtl
Posts: 1588
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:35 pm
Year and Model: 2005 XC70
Location: Boston
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 35 times
United States of America
vtl

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by vtl » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:41 pm

Also, as a side note: I came from the world of manual transmissions (everywhere in Europe), and even then new TF80-SC in wife's XC60 was not shifting well enough for me ;)


2005 XC70 260k
2016 XC60 40k

XC70Rider
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:09 pm
Year and Model: 2007 XC70
Location: MA
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 17 times
United States of America
XC70Rider

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by XC70Rider » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:59 pm

SuperHerman wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:34 pm

Bottom line changing fluid will not fix a bad part - BUT IT MAY help clean out some gunk which results in the needed fix.
All the drains and flush I did were worth it because the ATF is still coming out dark with a red tint. The PO might of followed Volvos advice and never changed the ATF.

When you mention 'Adaptions must be reset' are you referring to after only a solenoid replacement? After changing ATF I have only reset the fluid counter.



User avatar
oragex
Posts: 4391
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 6:20 am
Year and Model: S60 2003
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 206 times
Contact:
Canada
oragex

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by oragex » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:33 pm

In theory, the adaptations are reset (and relearned) only after replacing the valve body (or the whole transmission). New fluid only needs the fluid counter reset. I've seen some people resetting the adaptations as well without replacing any part, not sure how safe is this, some owners reported good changes. The thing is, the transmission will be forced to relearn the shift points with old parts some of which have wear to them or even don't work properly any longer (the solenoids for example)

In all cases, when the adaptations are reset, one should make sure to do the relearn procedure the correct way and have the transmission relearn all shift points properly, with the transmission fully warmed up, all this before shutting off the engine.




XC70Rider
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:09 pm
Year and Model: 2007 XC70
Location: MA
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 17 times
United States of America
XC70Rider

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by XC70Rider » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:35 pm

vtl wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:33 pm
Yes, TCM. SLU is ~200 mA when TC is unlocked, 500-700 - controlled partial slip, >900 when locked.
I just read those solenoid currents while driving with VIDA and they are within range.

After draining the ATF yesterday I took her for 45 mile ride. It was dropping 500prm while shifting into 4th and 5th gears. It was also dropping ~500rpm when the TC locked in 4th gear. I just took her for a 24 mile ride and it was notably smoother. It was only dropping 500rpm when engaging in the 5th gear. When locking up in 4th gear I only noticed a slight rpm drop. I guess it takes a few rides for the TCM to adapt to the new ATF. :?:
oragex wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:35 pm
This looks great. Would make a nice item to sell on Ebay & Volvo forums
Sure is awesome!. Much safer than leaning over a laptop while driving.



User avatar
SuperHerman
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:28 pm
Year and Model: 2004 & 2016 XC90
Location: Minnesota
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 114 times
United States of America
SuperHerman

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by SuperHerman » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:49 pm

Question: Is Adaptation needed after doing a fluid change? Answer, which is consistent with what I understand, is yes. Being lazy rather than boot up VIDA, I searched. See here: http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthrea ... Adaptation

On the flip side, I can understand the concept of not doing it if all is shifting fine before hand, especially with a drain and fill. It is more trouble than it is worth and the incremental change is offset by the hassle for no perceivable improvement (ignoring fuzzy logic one has trained).

As I have stated before the car's transmission computer will figure it out, Adaptation just resets the entire computer and then in learn mode sets the shift point - after that the fuzzy logic takes over and learns the driver's driving habits and makes more adjustments.

Dirty old fluid has different characteristics than new fresh fluid - so the solenoids will act differently. If the car is having shift problems, as a result of the dirty fluid, an adaptation is warranted. If parts changed, like a new solenoid, it would make sense to reset the system.

For example, one has a sticking solenoid that needs loads of pressure to engage, the computer has learned this need and adjusts accordingly. Replace the bad solenoid and the adjustment is no longer needed, but the added pressure comes at a cost. Hence the need to reset.

I swapped out a valve body and didn't do an adaptation for the first 10-20 miles. It drove fine, no slamming, but after the Adaptation and relearn it was much better.

Adaptation can best be seen as a reset and base level calibration. After that the computer will adjust, it just takes time. Use that concept to decide if an adaptation is warranted.



User avatar
vtl
Posts: 1588
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:35 pm
Year and Model: 2005 XC70
Location: Boston
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 35 times
United States of America
vtl

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by vtl » Wed May 01, 2019 7:07 am

XC70Rider wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:35 pm
I guess it takes a few rides for the TCM to adapt to the new ATF. :?:
Yes. It constantly learns how to shift. Sending it into adaptation mode makes the learning process quicker.
Seriously, add couple of oz of Lubegard HFM.

Did I tell my mini-Dice can put transmission into adaptation mode? I often do it while waiting for a green light, just switch to a neutral and press the button ;)
XC70Rider wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:35 pm
oragex wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:35 pm
This looks great. Would make a nice item to sell on Ebay & Volvo forums
Sure is awesome!. Much safer than leaning over a laptop while driving.
Too labor-intensive to make it profitable, too boring as there's no research/reverse engineering bits left, and I have a job that pays my bills already ;) If anybody wants to turn it into production - I can share implementation details.


2005 XC70 260k
2016 XC60 40k

IslandV70
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:59 pm
Year and Model: 2005 V70 2.4
Location: USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times
United States of America
IslandV70

Re: Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...

Post by IslandV70 » Wed May 01, 2019 9:21 am

So given this whole thread and the $25/liter price for ATF at the Volvo dealer, it seems OK to me to get T-IV at the Toyota dealer for a drain and fill.
Also I so want to build that display. I don't want to make 100s of them, but I do want one :D



Post Reply