Question about steering wheel-rack-subframe - 07 S60R

neworleans · Post by **neworleans** » 31 May 2017, 11:36

Hello all,

I recently bought a 07 S60R with some front end damage. The subframe was bent and I replaced it with a used one that came off a 02 S60. I also had the steering rack rebuilt because it was leaking. After all, I put everything back together and now I am getting more steering wheel turn to the right than left. This vehicle has 10 quarter turns from lock to lock position. I should be getting 5 quarters for each side but currently getting 5.5 quarters to the right and 4.5 quarters to the left. (4 quarter = 1 full turn). I am assuming that the subframe I installed has the same steering rack position as the original. I can't figure out what caused this inequality.
If you guys have any ideas, I would appreciate it.

Post by **Botbasher** » 31 May 2017, 12:43

neworleans wrote: 31 May 2017, 11:36 I recently bought a 07 S60R with some front end damage. The subframe was bent and I replaced it with a used one that came off a 02 S60.

You are talking a couple of years spread between the two... the thought that comes to mind is are they the same dimension for mounts??

You didn't mention which rack you had rebuilt, the 07 or the 02. If you mixed and matched between the two, there could be some subtle differences between them that account for the shift from side to side.

If the only thing you changed was the sub frame, I would measure out the two and see if there is a shift. Are your rod ends proportionately off as well?

Good Luck!

K "inches" S

neworleans · Post by **neworleans** » 31 May 2017, 13:02

Thanks for your reply.
I rebuilt the original leaking steering rack.
So the only different thing is now the subframe. I haven't measured the mount points yet but will do in a few days.
Here are the pictures of the two.
The clean is from the 02 S60.
The dirty one is the original one.

Post by **Botbasher** » 31 May 2017, 16:21

The aspect change of the pics makes it tough, but it looks like the mounts are different heights along the rear of the frame. That would change the geometry (Ackerman & Bump Steer), but it really shouldn't effect lock to lock, unless it's shifted.

You may have the clue though.... when you rebuilt the rack, did you pull the rack out, our just do the seals? You may have inadvertently rebuilt the rack with a side bias. Guilty on this one when shortening the rack for my Lotus. Took me a while to figure it out!

Cheers!

K "lefty"S

Post by **oragex** » 31 May 2017, 17:20

Are in/out tie rods same brand on both sides? If yes, maybe try to remove the steering wheel and replace it one spline to the right, then adjust the geometry at the tie rods to center properly the steering wheel.

Post by **chrism** » 31 May 2017, 18:12

oragex wrote: 31 May 2017, 17:20 Are in/out tie rods same brand on both sides? If yes, maybe try to remove the steering wheel and replace it one spline to the right, then adjust the geometry at the tie rods to center properly the steering wheel.

Or can you re-clock it by 45 deg (half of a quarter) at the lower end of the column where the error more likely occurred?

neworleans · Post by **neworleans** » 01 Jun 2017, 08:36

Thanks for the inputs.
I had the rack rebuilt by the Detroit Axles. The story for the rack is, I got one from them, the one I received had 12 quarters from lock to lock position and it wouldn't center as well, I still had more turns to the right then left. I thought the rack is different so I sent them the original one to rebuild. They did, they replaced the seals and sent it back. I still have the same issue.

Here is a video of the issue, I had taken it a couple of weeks ago to also post it in another forum but didn't get any ideas.

Post by **oragex** » 01 Jun 2017, 09:57

If I remember, there were two type of racks ZF and SMI
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread ... ering-Rack

Not sure if this applies here, but the alignment also should center the steering wheel when done properly. Some places do set the front wheels parallel, but forget to set the steering wheel centered. This explains a little bit the idea

Post by **Botbasher** » 01 Jun 2017, 11:41

neworleans wrote: 01 Jun 2017, 08:36 Thanks for the inputs.
I had the rack rebuilt by the Detroit Axles. The story for the rack is, I got one from them, the one I received had 12 quarters from lock to lock position and it wouldn't center as well, I still had more turns to the right then left. I thought the rack is different so I sent them the original one to rebuild. They did, they replaced the seals and sent it back. I still have the same issue.

Here is a video of the issue, I had taken it a couple of weeks ago to also post it in another forum but didn't get any ideas.

OK... possibly some clarification needed on your terminology here....

You say the one you bought had 3 turns lock to lock... that's 1.5 to center... Nice easy number to hit. How did that "not center"?

Are you just putting the rack in and expecting everything to be the same as the one you pulled out? When you do something like this, you'll need to start from a baseline point, which in this case would be the steering wheel. Then centering everything ending with a wheel alignment to match.

Just replacing one component might get you close, as you are, but you should always start from zero. I would do it in this order...

Center the steering wheel (i.e. clock spring) - If the spring is centered but the wheel isn't or vice-versa... make them as close as you can and split the diff!

Center the rack and then mate the two (Steering wheel and rack together) and confirm ROM (Range of Motion)

Make a good guess at the tie rod length and then do a garage alignment (center/center of front tires, then string to rear wheels)

Then if all checks out, drive it to the alignment shop for a proper 4 wheel alignment.

Don't intend to sound remedial, but I don't know what you've done to this point, so I have to reference starting from a known good point... which would be Steering wheel at 12 o'clock! Above all remember though that steering is often a compromise when combining many components. Sometimes getting a 50/50 split between all isn't possible when tolerances creep in! Do you want a steering wheel that is perfectly centered but missing 1/4 turn on one side or a wheel slightly off, but perfect 50/50 split? The wheel annoys me so I pick visual every time. You're never at lock during normal driving!

Hope this helps!

K "hopeful" S

neworleans · Post by **neworleans** » 06 Jun 2017, 11:41

Hi Bothbasher,

I ended up getting the original rack rebuilt and when I centered it when Installed it, the steering wheel didn't have the same turn ratios.

I worked on it over the weekend after reading your message and removed the steering wheel and repositioned it by turning left about 5 teeth (the picture shows 4 but it is actually 5, went up one more tooth after taken picture). Now I have the same turn ratios either side.

Do you guys think this will cause any issues?