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replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on S40 and V40. In this forum you'll find S40/V40-specific owners asking and answering questions on maintenance, ownership, repairs, tutorials and almost every do-it-yourself thing you can do to save money owning these Volvos.

1996 - 2004 S40
1996 - 2004 V40

jane7191
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replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by jane7191 » Tue May 15, 2018 3:50 pm

I'm new to the site and I'm sure others have had the same problem I'm having so if there's a thread on this topic I apologize.

Was driving my 02 v40 when I heard a loud rapping sound coming from the top end so I stopped the car and had it towed.
In an effort to save money my friend changed the timing belt but before doing so he changed lower control arms, both front axle shafts, sway bar links, strut tower mount and struts and many similar parts in the rear .
After trying to start we came to realize after taking compression that there's internal damage with very low compression in almost all cylinders. The dilemma now is having done all this I don't want a used motor but rather remove the head and take to machine shop to be repaired then I'll have a new head gasket, new internal engine parts plus the new timing belt and basically new suspension. What I don't know is the cost because depending if something other than valves are damaged and if this is the best way to go.
Been in this situation before with other cars over the years but don't want to repeat my mistakes by taking the cheaper way I want to keep it for a long time it has 159K and I'm the second owner. Any suggestions would be appreciated .
A good friend would be disassembing it so labor costs will be reasonable just want to know what potential problems I might run into that could cost a lot mainly with repairing the head. Appreciate any insight

Jane


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jefe
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jefe

Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by jefe » Tue May 15, 2018 4:16 pm

I had this work done on an old Bronco (6 cylinder) of mine, and I think it cost me a few hundred bucks to have the heads cleaned, resurfaced, and a valve job done. Valve seats and valve stems were replaced, but I don't remember if they had to do this for every cylinder or just the ones that needed it. I had the work done at a local Carquest that had a machine shop.

But you probably won't know the full extent of the damage until you get the head off.

After that was completed and the engine running again, I took it in to have the valves adjusted which probably cost another $100-200.

Hope this helps.



jane7191
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Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by jane7191 » Tue May 15, 2018 5:38 pm

ok sounds like it's the better alternative to buying a used motor which I can't believe how much junk yard motors are I can find a running s/v 40 for the price their asking. Since so much suspension work was done I just can't even think about walking away from this car I think with the head done it would have years of life considering the new timing belt and head gasket the transmission would be the only major component to fail but that doesn't scare me if happened because there is a fair amount of transmissions I see at fair prices. Funny while searching for parts on craigslist I noticed several 40 models for sale in the parts section saying needs timing belt well knowing what internal damage there might be there's no way how cheap it would be I wouldn't go near it. well I guess next step is to remove the head and go from there, appreciate the help!


57 vintage 356 speedster
67 morris minor woody traveller
61 vw transporter
87 austin mini
76 vw westfalia
78 vw transporter
72 vw camper
77 vw bus
78 vw bus
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jefe

Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by jefe » Tue May 15, 2018 6:02 pm

Sure no problem.

I am currently doing a timing belt/cam seal oil leak job on my V40. While working on it I found an axle boot ripped, and both inner tie rod boots destroyed as well as a few other smaller things.

If I were you I would check cam seals for leaks since you are tearing down the engine. My V40 has about 150k too and was leaking oil all over the timing belt which will cause the belt to wear out faster.

I would also look into replacing your PCV system. I started researching why cam seals would leak and the PCV system for the turbo seemed to be a go to cause for the leaks as the PCV trap and hoses can get clogged over time.

The PCV trap sits buried behind the exhaust manifold so I decided to check mine and sure enough it was clogged up with hardened oil deposits. If I hadn't replaced it, my cam seals and who knows what else were likely to start leaking again prematurely.

It would be worth checking since you are taking half the motor off anyways.

- jeff



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Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by oragex » Tue May 15, 2018 6:52 pm

I'm surprised that person did so much work on a car known to have an interference engine so basically being sure that the head was damaged.

I find that suspicious from his part. I would just stay away from that mechanic. As for the car, can you tell which brands were the parts he used for the suspension? If he put cheap parts, then you may as well give up on this car because those parts won't last 2 years.



jane7191
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Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by jane7191 » Tue May 15, 2018 7:25 pm

the sway bar links were moog , both front used og axles from a low mileage car , control arms were URO , monroe struts and volvo brakes also the timing belt full kit including cam seals included factory volvo antifreeze.
My friend who works on all my cars did the work actually at my insistence because I thought since the car had been running when I heard the noise and stopped it would be ok. I was careful when buying the parts doing some research and reading reviews on amazon in fact at first I got a remanufactured axle shaft which I had to return because it was a few millimeters off where it clicks in right near the bearing anyway decided at that point to go with an original and although used it was verified from a very low mileage car. thinking of $400- for my friends labor to remove and replace head and another $400- at machine shop and another $200- for head gasket kit just estimating but I feel like I wouldn't be able to replace it at $1K.


57 vintage 356 speedster
67 morris minor woody traveller
61 vw transporter
87 austin mini
76 vw westfalia
78 vw transporter
72 vw camper
77 vw bus
78 vw bus
71 vw campmobile

jane7191
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Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by jane7191 » Tue May 15, 2018 7:39 pm

this 2009 post gives me hope.....thoughts? agree?

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Volvo Repair Database Broken Timing Belt
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Post by schigara » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:57 am

I just can't take it anymore. I have been a member of this forum for a while and everytime the topic of a timing belt comes up, the ususal suspects proclaim that a broken belt means the end of an engine or the head is "destroyed" and requires purchasing a new or rebuilt head.

While a broken timing belt is bad and costs a lot more money than it would have cost to maintain the belt, it is by no means, a catastrophe or the end of the engine.

The only thing that happens when a timing belt breaks is a few valves get bent. This is not that big a deal! The valves for this car are relatively cheap at $10-15 a piece. In 1992 I bought a 1987 Porsche 928S which was a 32 valve V8 that had a broken belt. The intake valves were $48 each and the exhaust valves were $76 each and the headgasket set was $315 per bank. Now that was a catastrophe! Only one intake valve was unbent. I had to buy the other 31 valves.

All that is required is a valve spring compressor and a piece of 1/2in pvc pipe with a slot cut out to reach into and get the valve locks out. Put in the new valves, re-lap the valves with a drill or a grinding stick with suction cup and fine grinding material.

For those who might think that there are special procedures or something different because this car is a Volvo, think again, there is nothing different or difficult. Because of the automatic tensioner, it is actually one of the easiest engines to put a belt on. The Porsche 928S-S4 , GTS and 944/944Turbo are the most difficult which requires the use of a special belt tensioning tool(p9201). The Porsche 928's are so critical to have the timing belt at a particular tension that they are one of the only cars that have a timing belt tension light on the instrument cluster.

The Volvo engine is as simple as a Toyota or Nissan and is nothing to marvel at or be afraid of.
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Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by mrbrian200 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:31 am

Preface: there might be some 'commentary' buried in this one. Proceed at your own risk.

All the parts, except maybe the URO control arms, should be ok. The LCAs may not last terribly long, but that depends on which bushes they use. I'm assuming URO doesn't fab their own bushes in house.

If you eventually get the car running I'm very interested on an objective assessment of those Monroe OES Spectrum struts/shocks for the S60.

My S60 (with Sachs blue label struts that would be considered very close to OE tuning) is by far the best handling vehicle I've owned in a long time when it comes to excessive speed on well maintained interstate quality roads. But that's not where I'm at most of the time, and I follow the speed of traffic, normally 65-75mph tops. As opposed to most domestics, on these better roads the Volvo just screams 'I drive so nice go faster!'. But there's a big catch I could live without:

My sisters old MY02 Jetta RIP (with Monroe STs and Michelin MXV4s installed) rolled over the ridiculously poor "maintained" rural county/state roads at 60mph with a more consistent agreeable ride quality where both the S60 and XC90 (Sachs blue label, and Volvo OE with Nivomat rears on the XC) seem peachy over much of it. But only up to a certain point: 'one more straw' effectively breaks the camels back. The Jetta with Monroes was a more linear experience. It tended to follow some of the smaller road contours more but without the awkward feeling combination of 'soft yet stiff at the same time'. The Monroes also didn't break down and feel 'stressed' over the largest bumps/dips where the Sachs/OE Volvo dampeners seem to lose composure.

As opposed to euro designs that seem to favor the ultimate ultra high speed experience on the autobahn (nothing of the like exists anywhere here in the states) that would have the Top Gear personalities/Car and Driver staff sleepwhacking for months, mid-higher tier products targeted exclusively toward the US/NA market (this includes domestic OE designs) seem to design for the average mediocre-poor roads and speeds we actually drive here.

There's also a chance that these Monroe Spectrum shocks try to duplicate OE tuning/characteristics. I primarily want to know how the overall ride quality pans across poorly maintained side roads @45-60mph. And also whether they maintain a safe level of stability on a well maintained interstate between 60-80mph (likely, the Monroes on the Jetta did). Nevermind how they may feel/handle at speeds in excess of that. Not a single US road anyplace anywhere is engineered to facilitate vehicle speeds in excess of 85mph by any vehicle, Volvo or otherwise. In effect I don't care how it feels rolling 160mph on the salt flats (that's not what I use the car for).



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Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by oragex » Thu May 17, 2018 8:06 am

jane7191 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 7:25 pm
control arms were URO , also the timing belt full kit
Do you know what the timing belt kit was? Water pump ?

As above, URO is a poor quality, they may fail in the next 6-18mths or so. Amazon is not good at reviewing can parts because buyers place their reviews right after the purchase, but don't came back months later when the problems start. The rest of the parts seem ok.



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Re: replaced timing belt to find internal damage now what?

Post by mrbrian200 » Thu May 17, 2018 3:57 pm

oragex wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:06 am
Amazon is not good at reviewing can parts because buyers place their reviews right after the purchase, but don't came back months later when the problems start. The rest of the parts seem ok.
Amazon reviews can be pretty useless much of the time. People leaving reviews tend not to be experts on much of anything and usually don't have any perspective with regard to genuinely high quality products.
A friend of mine bought a set of surround speakers, JBL branded Chinese cheap crap plastic pod speakers based on Amazon reviews. The system sucked. Satellites sounded like a transistor radio from 1980, the center channel had so much resonance in the midbass that you couldn't understand dialog and the sub box resonated at ~90 HZ. The cheap poly cone tweeters they used all around the system have a resonance peak almost +10db at 9khz that made everything sound shrill and gave you a headache at higher volume.

It's just awful. Amazon reviews gave him the impression that they sounded 'super high end' and might compare to my B&W/Polk/HK theater system I have at home (that I managed to put together on the cheap). Nothing of the sort.



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